Nathan Phillips Square Revitalization | U/C | Downtown

[Taller, Better]

There is no question the square needs to be repaired, and there is no harm adding things if they are sympathetically incorporated. For example, a permanent stage would be welcome. Ugly additions like the skate rental shoebox and the Terry Fox thing should be removed. Surely a better way can be found to house the skating rental place. What the controversy is about is the possible removal of the bridge and walkway that was an integral part of the original plan. Some would have it swept away and completely redesigned, and others like myself would like to see it repaired and made useable again. The Peace monument had good intentions, but it is in the wrong place.

[KGB]

I agree with doing something about a permanent stage....that temporary one is there a lot of the time do to so many functions that require them. It's so big and ugly, it really is a blight on the place. Perhaps something along the lines of the raising and disapearing one they built into Metro Hall? Only REALLY well done.

The space between Osgoode Hall and the western elevated walkway is pretty wasted space...perhaps some form of well-designed food/beverage/seating arrangements could be put there. I agree that all snacks/whathaveyou being confined to the chip wagons and ice-cream trucks on Queen St is pathetic.

The far-northern corridor could be better utilized as well. And Bay St is completely off-limits...they should re-work it so there is an actual sidewalk on the western side of Bay. The green space bwtween Queen St and the southern elevated walkway is underutilized and the grass needs replacing every year...maybe just having grass there is not the best way to use this land....and it's not a small amount of space either...the combined space of the south and western grassy area outside of the perimiter of the elevated walkways probably equals the space of the square itself.

The skate rental/bathrooms/parking lot exit building is indeed ugly...and I think it's actually part of the origional design (not entirely sure though). That would be a good candidate for replacement...perhaps something really interesting.

As long as the origional design is kept intact and the "extras" are removed, these alterations would not have a negative effect on the integrity of the vintage stuff.






KGB

[p5archit]

What both of you (Taller, Better & KGB) are saying makes complete sense. Everything should go, which does not belong to the original design- including the Skate Rental Shack- then cleaned from top to bottom- this includes the City Hall building as well. it is long overdue- this includes cleaning and fixing the observation deck in City Hall.

I completely agree that the there is an awful lot of valuable deadspace inbetween Osgoode Hall and NPS and is completely underutilized- this area should be landscaped and small market/food kiosks should be built there- open all year round.

There is enough which could be done and as MANY have already said, as long as its done respectfully and done well, there shouldn't be a problem in refurbishing NPS.

Now the question will be, whether or not the city makes the right choice in what needs to be done? I look forward to at least seeing the submissions in the coming months (years)..

p5

[Taller, Better]

As far as I know, the skate rental shoebox was an add on. I'd love for us to get our observation deck back on City Hall, too. Shame the way it was closed because of a loose tile or two.

[CrazyCanuck]

Originally Posted by KGB

Ha Ha!!!


After posting the above, I noticed I had a "message" in my box (a rare occurance). I opened it to find one of our esteemed "moderators" had told me the "putting to sleep" of NPS wreckers was worth an "infraction".

I suppose nerve-gassing part of the 905 gets me barred then I guess. LOL


Seriously...I can simply edit my posts to exclude whatever comments anyone wants, but if you can't distinguish between silly, good-natured humour and "insulting members" (I mean, if you want to get literal, it was actually a death-threat, not an insult)....then perhaps moderating is not your calling.

I chose to air this in public, rather than just returning a private message, because I think the general forum membership needs to know what goes on behind the scenes.





KGB

KGB you need to use some smilies once in a while, half the time I don't know if you are serious or not. It wasn't only the fact that you said you would gas everyone, but it was the fact that some people had an opinion that you didn't like and then said you were going to gas them. A few people might find that a tad offensive, wouldn't you say? What is this behind the scenes stuff you are talking about? For a matter of fact, I didn't even want to send you a message, but this new infraction system made me write something, so I figured I might as well tell you what happened. I will also respond in the public so that everyone will get the truth about really happens behind the scenes.

[KGB]

KGB you need to use some smilies once in a while

Hey...I'm finally using the "quote" function, after how many years?? Now you want emoticons??? SLOOOOOOOW down there hairdo....maybe next year if yer lucky....but don't hold your breath.

half the time I don't know if you are serious or not.

Well, being obvious is not part of my tactics. So...what are you saying....you're not sure if I might actually have homicidal tendencies?

It wasn't only the fact that you said you would gas everyone, but it was the fact that some people had an opinion that you didn't like and then said you were going to gas them.

Hey...I never said I was going to gas the people who had various schemes involving wrecking Revelle's masterpeice...I said I was going to put them to sleep....big difference...getting put to sleep involves a very humane and painless process...no suffering...just like what you'd do for poor kitty.

Nerve gas...now that's an entirely different story...very nasty way to go...it's like being drowned and burning to death at the same time. And I would never do this to Durham Region without first taking a poll (which I just assume would favour such action).

A few people might find that a tad offensive

Throwing a little humour into a debate that's getting a bit too heavy should not be seen as offensive...even if you find the humour a bit too much in bad taste for "your" particular level of comfort.

I think some people need to watch a little more BBC tv...makes me look down-right conservative (personally, I recommend Little Britain)..

Now the question will be, whether or not the city makes the right choice in what needs to be done? I look forward to at least seeing the submissions in the coming months (years)..

Yes, I'm hoping those who make the submissions will more than likely feel the same way about respecting good work of architects when messing around with their creations. I'll be a bit of a cock-eyed optimist and assume any worth their salt will.






KGB

[CrazyCanuck]

I don't mind humour at all KGB, but it's when I can't tell the difference that drives me nuts.

Just please keep the death threats to a minimum.( Which means none)
Remember, love not war.

[Filip]

KGB, Quote? Oh my God... This is a new day for Toronto

[KGB]

KGB, Quote? Oh my God... This is a new day for Toronto

I've been really pissed-off....I have been using it since the sytem was "fixed", and no-one said a word. I used to get grilled constantly for not using it.

You ingrates...I'm gonna ki..l......er....never mind.






KGB

[urban 2.0]

Originally Posted by p5archit

I completely agree that the there is an awful lot of valuable deadspace inbetween Osgoode Hall and NPS and is completely underutilized- this area should be landscaped and small market/food kiosks should be built there- open all year round.


p5

--- THANK YOU --- Finally someone else who has suggested small market - food stalls - clearly you know how a european square works. Tons of chairs and tables where you can grab a pint or coffee and people watch in the late afternoon sun.

Sunday farmer markets, fish stands, people selling junk, it's all great.

Clear out the square of the clutter and ring it with stalls of various vendors.

[KGB]

Sunday farmer markets, fish stands, people selling junk, it's all great.

Well, I don't think that sort of thing would work well there....places to have coffee or a bite is one thing, but markets just wouldn't be practicle...people go to proper neighbourhood markets for that stuff....city hall is just not a convenient or practical location for that.






KGB

[p5archit]

I agree that people like their local markets, but i disagree that food/market Kiosks wouldn't work- I know we are a little behind, when it comes to the Square mentality (no-pun intended), but I think Toronto is slowly but surely grasping it..

I am not saying that these kiosks be defined only for 'Market' purposes, but rather amenities which will make people come and use the square at all times of the day to: 'people gaze', shop for stuff and relax and have a coffee, a cold beverage or food of sorts...

The opportunity lies in NPS's situation- it is a very heavily travelled area, by car, transit and of course most importantly pedestrians- the site is also very urban and is surrounded by some fantastic architecture- (not Sheraton or Simpsons Tower) and the trick will be to incorporating and channeling all of the various flows so that the square gets more attention and becomes more integrated into peoples daily lives..

Areas presently acting as paths or connections to NPS should be landscaped and better tied into the overall look and feel of the squre, giving the square defined access points, which act as guides, as well as experiences..

p5

[thryve]

I hope it keeps its linear, simple look, if broken up a bit to make it more green, or organic.

I think it should still match with the City Hall and be still somewhat conservative in its look... that's just me though.

[Filip]

Paint City Hall pink! Install some glowsticks, a disco ball.. and hooray! Club Toronto!

[Taller, Better]

"we are a little behind, when it comes to the Square mentality"

Believe it or not, NPS has long been a genuine meeting place... a real and functional Town Square, in both winter and summer. People make it sound like Torontonians have been just a bit dense about figuring out what it is for, when in fact it is positively alive and thriving everytime I go there. I actually like getting a sausage at the Bavarian Wagon, and am not sure if I want to see ugly permanent "Official" food stalls (a la Harbourfront) constructed just to make it more "European". We do not have to turn NPS into a flea market to make it more attractive. The stately Avenida Paulista in São Paulo has been visually degraded by allowing it to become a huge flea market. I say don't tamper with the formula too much... it is an incredibly successful Square all on its own. It needs repair and fine tuning, but does not need to be "redefined" so that we will be able to figure it out. We already have, long ago.

"Areas presently acting as paths or connections to NPS should be landscaped and better tied into the overall look and feel of the squre, giving the square defined access points, which act as guides, as well as experiences.."

This would be a great idea, and a good addition to Nathan Philp's Square. This is the type of thing we should be focusing on.The side areas are fairly attractive in the Spring and summer, but are desolate in the winter:





and the tulip bed at the Queen Street side

[InTheBeach]

"I've been really pissed-off....I have been using it since the sytem was "fixed", and no-one said a word. I used to get grilled constantly for not using it."

This is great, but I never noticed.

But if we can get you to spell "original" instead of "origional" I will streak down Yonge St.

[KGB]

But if we can get you to spell "original" instead of "origional" I will streak down Yonge St.

Might be difficult...I type superfast and don't think about spelling. There are certain words that while I know the correct spelling, for some reason I have some sort of typing dyslexia. I used to use "it's" for all use of the word, even when it was supposed to be "its". I know the diff, but for some reason, automatically only used the one. I have managed to mostly fix that one, because someone made such an issue of it, it has made me very conscious of it.

So who knows...you may be streaking down Yonge after all. And you can't cheat and do it at the Pride parade or anything....has to be a Wed night in Feb, and all the way from Bloor to Queen.






KGB

[salvius]

Oooh, this is getting interesting.

[Taller, Better]

They are trying to horn in on neilo's action of running naked down the street, pulling his hair out by clumps! I could be wrong, but I think it has been patented.....

[p5archit]

Taller,Better- I see where you are coming from with regards to adding things to the square- however, when I said more permanent structures, I did not necessarily mean on the square itself, but rather along the side(s)-

p5