Nathan Phillips Square Revitalization | U/C | Downtown

[Taller, Better]

Originally Posted by p5archit

Taller,Better- I see where you are coming from with regards to adding things to the square- however, when I said more permanent structures, I did not necessarily mean on the square itself, but rather along the side(s)-

p5

Oh, I see... Ithought you meant in the actual square itself. The square is occasionally used for flea market "art exhibit" type things. I guess there would be no harm in allowing the side areas to become a flea market. I'd hate to see it become a daily occurance in the square, though. I am leery of building any permanent booths of any type. Firstly they will probably look ghastly when empty and shuttered up and become covered with graffiti , and secondly I like to think of a town square market vendors as being somewhat "higgledy-piggledy" and not too officially organized. I kind of like the lineup of Wiener Wagons on the front and they seem to serve the purpose.
If I were to suggest one thing that I think the square does not have enough of, that would be seating. I would love to see more integrated seating throughout.

[p5archit]

Seating is a must and it will hopefully be included in some of the proposals- at the moment, the scattered benches are horrible and do nothing for the square.

Regarding the permanent pavilions- i am not too much in favor of a flea-market, but rather stands which sell both food and fruit for immediate consumption as well as for at home..

The wagons along queen are not a problem, considering they are not part of the square anyways..

p5

[Taller, Better]

Maybe there is some way of constructing permanent stalls that will not look like the midway at the CNE, but I am uncertain of the effect. Well, we will just have to wait and see how invasive the proposals will be. One thing that I think Torontonians are not very good at is recognizing when they have done something right. This is a true, functioning Town Hall Square... I can think of no other city in Canada which can say that of its City Hall. Montreal's is beautiful, but with the exception of the odd visiting French President, it is not a "people" square. When I read articles by local architectural critics about NPS, it sounds like the thing is a crumbling, outdated failure that needs to be redesigned... that makes me nervous. I cross my fingers....

[p5archit]

I agree with you about getting things right- however, rare an occasion that may be in Toronto- but i share your concern about it being ruined and i don't want the square to be ruined, but something must be done to clean it up- action must be taken and hopefull it will not come at the expense of redoing the entire space- but if anything hopefully the teams of architects/designers competing will understand this and approach it with respect rather than disdain.

p5

[Taller, Better]

Many of the current crop of architects are egotistical beyond belief, and I can envision some of them wanting to put their strong stamp on it. Maybe Will Alsop would put the Skate Rental shoebox on huge stilts and you would have to go up an elevator to rent the skates! LOL!
I actually believe Toronto does a hell of a lot more "right" than people will ever give it credit for. It is not cool to appear too impressed by anything done in Toronto. I'm not sure where that all comes from.. it doesn't happen that way in any other city I know of.

[urban 2.0]

See the building behind the performers - that is they style and type they should build around NPS...


Same here - small shops, plenty of patio space ...

[p5archit]

Ahhh....good 'ol La Ramblas...that was home area for almost a year..That is a great pedestrian area- however, i am not so in favor of those huts..i think something better has be done, but i see where you are coming from..

I believe the company responsible for the designs- based in Barcelona and Madrid, is also competing to redesign Toronto's street furniture..could be wrong..

here is a link:

http://www.cemusa.com/web/en/index.aspx

p5

[Taller, Better]

People are remarkably easy to please in the summertime... give them a focal point (such as City Hall itself in the case of this particular Town Square, or a cosy little shopping alley/thorofare... supply some seating, a drink and a snack and they are happy. NPS has accomplished the almost unimaginable in Canada- it is busy year round due to the skating rink and the marvelous winter lighting in the square. But I am inclined to agree with P5archit, permanent huts (and particularily ones that look like standard newspaper vending kiosks like the ones above) are not the best way to go for NPS. They look so forlone and desolate when shuttered up for the winter. The side alleys are too narrow to actually create shopping/pedestrian malls like the ones shown above, but maybe one or two small outdoor cafes can be created on the fringes of the property. The pix above could be from anywhere in the world, and pretty much sum up what people like to do in the summer, be it Spain or be it Dundas Square Queen Street, Harbourfront, The Beach, Distillery District etc... people love to schmooze, chat, People Watch and occasionally to be entertained. Pix I took this summer here in TO:
















the ubiquitous buskers that look eerily identical around the world:



What NPS desperately needs is MORE SEATING, and maybe a few well thought out cafes/food outlets. The side alleys could be cleverly turned into typical "market" spaces in the summer, but on a very modest and temporary scale bearing in mind how narrow the sites actually are. NPS positively bustles in the winter, with skating, so why not sell hot chocolate and light snacks? Easy to do and could be incorporated discretely. I'm amazed one of the million hot dog vendors doesn't set up a Hot Chocolate stand every night on the edge of NPS. He would make a killing!

[Martinsizon]

From City of Toronto News:

December 6, 2006
Finalists named in Nathan Phillips Square Revitalization Design Competition

Four outstanding design teams have been selected as finalists to compete in Stage II of the international competition to revitalize Nathan Phillips Square.

The four teams short-listed by the competition jury to proceed to Stage II of the competition are:

* Baird Sampson Neuert Architects, Toronto, with VLAN Paysages (landscape architect, Montreal); Halcrow Yolles (structural engineer, Toronto); Cobalt Engineering (mechanical engineer, Toronto); and Mulvey & Banani International Inc. (electrical engineer, Toronto)

* Plant Architect Inc., Toronto, with Shore Tilbe Irwin & Partners (architect, Toronto); Peter Lindsay Schaudt Landscape Architecture, Inc. (landscape architect, Chicago); Adrian Blackwell (design collaborator, Toronto); Blackwell Bowick Partnership Limited (structural engineer, Toronto); and Crossey Engineering Ltd. (mechanical and electrical engineers, Toronto)

* Rogers Marvel Architects, New York, with Ken Smith Landscape Architect (landscape architect, New York) and Buro Happold (structural, mechanical and electrical engineers, New York)

* Zeidler Partnership Architects, Toronto, with Group Signes (landscape architect, Paris, France); Halcrow Yolles (structural engineer, Toronto); and Hidi Rae (mechanical and electrical engineers, Toronto)


“On behalf of all Torontonians, I thank the entrants for their thoughtful and creative efforts and the jury for its intense deliberations,” said Mayor David Miller. “The members of the jury faced a challenging task in short-listing the finalists. We look forward to the selection of a winning design in March that will result in the revitalization of Toronto’s premier public space and civic gathering place.”

“Many excellent submissions were received and the creative ideas expressed gave the jury members a full range of approaches to consider,” remarked Peter Ortved, Professional Advisor overseeing the competition. “The short-listed finalists best responded to the challenges outlined in the Competition Brief and the jury looks forward to seeing these conceptual ideas developed in greater detail. I am confident that the final designs will excite the citizens of Toronto.”

Forty-eight teams from around the world, with members from Canada, Chile, China, England, Finland, France, Germany, Iran, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Spain and the United States, submitted design proposals in the first stage of the competition.

The Competition Jury is chaired by Eric Haldenby, architect and Director of the University of Waterloo School of Architecture. Other jury members are: Dinu Bumbaru, internationally recognized heritage architect from Montreal; David Crombie, former Mayor of Toronto and President and CEO of The Canadian Urban Institute; Frances Halsband, architect and partner in the New York firm of R.M. Kliment & Frances Halsband Architects; Cornelia Oberlander, distinguished landscape architect from Vancouver; and Michael Ondaatje, world-renowned author and resident of Toronto.

Stage II finalists will submit detailed design plans by February 16, 2007. A public exhibition of the final designs will be held before the jury meets in early March 2007 to evaluate the designs and select a winner.

The design competition is part of the Toronto Government’s efforts to beautify and restore its public spaces. The City has made a $16-million financial commitment and is seeking an additional $24 million in contributions from other levels of government, the private sector and the business community for Nathan Phillips Square’s revitalization and restoration.

For more information visit www.toronto.ca/npsquarecompetition

Toronto is Canada’s largest city and sixth largest government, and home to a diverse population of more than 2.6 million people. It is the economic engine of Canada and one of the greenest and most creative cities in North America. In the past three years Toronto has won more than 50 awards for quality and innovation in delivering public services. Toronto’s government is dedicated to prosperity, opportunity and liveability for all its residents.

Media contacts:
Peter Ortved, Professional Advisor, CS&P Architects, 416-482-5002
Sheila Glazer, Manager, Strategic Policy and Projects,
Facilities and Real Estate Division, 416-392-0879

[Martinsizon]

NPS finalist designs will be on display with the group presentations in city hall on Febuary 20th.

[metroboi_nay]

Originally Posted by Martinsizon

NPS finalist designs will be on display with the group presentations in city hall on Febuary 20th.

Thanks for the update, hope someone here can post shots for those who can't make it

[humanscale]

TB's comment about seating in NPS made me think of a great book and video called The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces: by William H. Whyte (sociologist, Columbia Univ) that would be very instructive to the re-developers of Nathan Phillips Square. it is a little dated, but demonstrates how to design a public space for maximum enjoyment, with lots of empirical evidence for how to do seating, shadowing, water features, food vendors, etc...Some of the best public spaces just have movable chairs (I think they have done this in Dundas Square), allowing people to configure them as they please.

[urban 2.0]

Originally Posted by humanscale

TB's comment about seating in NPS made me think of a great book and video called The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces: by William H. Whyte (sociologist, Columbia Univ) that would be very instructive to the re-developers of Nathan Phillips Square. it is a little dated, but demonstrates how to design a public space for maximum enjoyment, with lots of empirical evidence for how to do seating, shadowing, water features, food vendors, etc...Some of the best public spaces just have movable chairs (I think they have done this in Dundas Square), allowing people to configure them as they please.

... thanks for the book title.

It's what I've been saying all along. The city needs to turn it into a true plaza. Turn NPS into the patio of Toronto.

We need companies selling beer and food, put in market stalls for small business, make it a place where you can hang out, people watch for hours.

I'm now in favour of tearing down the walkway, make more space for activities. Get rid of the stupid UN memorial, place it in less busy park.

[KGB]

The most important factor here is respecting the integrity of the original design of the architect. The city has a responsibility to the greater architectural community to preserve what is the last and premier work of a famous architect who died very young.

And we do not respect his design by demolishing a critical element of it.

I think it is possible to do some work on the square to both restore original elements to their original condition, and maybe introduce new elements that are compatable and provide needed seating or whatever.

Viljo Revell is one of the great Finnish architects (who studied under Alvar Aalto), who had a huge impact on the architectural world in his short carreer, although not that well known in general public circles. Trust me, if we wreck one of his greatest works (and one of only two outside of Finland), we will see architectural critics from around the world will decree us as heretics.

And they would be right...you don't deface art....PERIOD!!

His design for city hall consisted of 4 elements...the square, the council chamber, and the two towers flanking it. They are all part of one cohesive form.

We just have to get notions of turning into a fuking food court or flea market or whatever right of our heads. All a proper public square needs is SPACE...and that is already there.

I think people just don't get the design at all...sure...it's Scandanavian modernist...which means rather spare...even bleak. But that's what it is...if you don't like it...too bad...that's art for you.

Want something absolutely stunning...just remove everything that wasn't part of the original design. How easy is that? The elements of this square are perfect...nice open space, with the arched fountain...the elevated walkway which denotes the square's perimeter....the curved grand entrance to the upper council chamber...and a Henry Moore as a cherry on our sundae.

You don't get any better than that.

And people want to piss that away?

Sorry, but sometimes we are our worst enemy. We screw this up and we will be regretting it forever.






KGB

[DrT]

Originally Posted by KGB

The most important factor here is respecting the integrity of the original design of the architect. The city has a responsibility to the greater architectural community to preserve what is the last and premier work of a famous architect who died very young.

And we do not respect his design by demolishing a critical element of it.

I think it is possible to do some work on the square to both restore original elements to their original condition, and maybe introduce new elements that are compatable and provide needed seating or whatever.

Viljo Revell is one of the great Finnish architects (who studied under Alvar Aalto), who had a huge impact on the architectural world in his short carreer, although not that well known in general public circles. Trust me, if we wreck one of his greatest works (and one of only two outside of Finland), we will see architectural critics from around the world will decree us as heretics.

And they would be right...you don't deface art....PERIOD!!

His design for city hall consisted of 4 elements...the square, the council chamber, and the two towers flanking it. They are all part of one cohesive form.

We just have to get notions of turning into a fuking food court or flea market or whatever right of our heads. All a proper public square needs is SPACE...and that is already there.

I think people just don't get the design at all...sure...it's Scandanavian modernist...which means rather spare...even bleak. But that's what it is...if you don't like it...too bad...that's art for you.

Want something absolutely stunning...just remove everything that wasn't part of the original design. How easy is that? The elements of this square are perfect...nice open space, with the arched fountain...the elevated walkway which denotes the square's perimeter....the curved grand entrance to the upper council chamber...and a Henry Moore as a cherry on our sundae.

You don't get any better than that.

And people want to piss that away?

Sorry, but sometimes we are our worst enemy. We screw this up and we will be regretting it forever. KGB

I propose that we make KGB change his screen name to V of R for "Voice of Reason" --- DrT.

[Waterloo_Guy]

It's the 20th.

[CrazyCanuck]

Patience Waterloo, pics will appear.

[Martinsizon]

City Hall cuts back on $6.2M reno
Staff scales down upgrade plan to $2.9M, but keeps media studio, more room for mayor's staff. It goes to committee Friday

Feb 20, 2007 04:30 AM
Jim Byers
CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF

They've dropped one of the proposed committee rooms. And they're suggesting councillors not lose their views of Nathan Phillips Square.

But they're still talking about more space for the mayor's office and proposing a fancy media studio for councillors to strut their stuff.

City of Toronto staff was greeted with a barrage of criticism recently when it was revealed they had plans for a $6.2 million renovation at City Hall.

Plans called for upgrading two existing committee rooms, building a studio for press conferences and moving five council members from favoured offices overlooking the square to less desirable digs at the back of the building.

The latter move was proposed so that Mayor David Miller could bring all his staff under one roof and not have them split into separate offices on the second floor, as is now the case.

Miller denounced the plan as too expensive, while councillors moaned about having to move to accommodate the mayor.

Chief Corporate Officer Bruce Bowes said staff sat down with Miller and top bureaucrats and drafted the new plan, to cost between $2.5 and $2.9 million and to go to council's budget committee for consideration on Friday.

Instead of getting rid of two existing committee rooms and making them into larger, state-of-the-art rooms like the two main rooms at City Hall, staff suggested improving one and leaving the other as is.

The new committee room will be built so that it can be split into two smaller rooms, Bowes said, while the media centre/studio also will be designed to be turned into a committee room.

Improving both of the smaller committee rooms on the second floor would've required moving some of the mayor's staff, and the plans called for them to be shifted into space overlooking Nathan Phillips Square – space now used by five councillors.

Some were angry at the idea of leaving their space to make room for the mayor, most notably Councillor David Shiner (Ward 24, Willowdale), a sparring partner of Miller.

The new plan calls for the mayor's new staff to be housed in what is now an entryway into council member's offices, a corridor that splits the mayor's office staff in two.

The councillors will get a new entrance elsewhere on the second floor, and the mayor will be able to house his staff in one convenient spot.

Miller has said he wants to hire new workers to handle environmental issues and economic development matters.

Two new administrative staff also are being proposed, which would bring his staff of 19to 23.

Miller said he needs the increase because he has new powers and responsibilities under the City of Toronto Act brought in by the province.

A spokesperson for Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan said has seven workers on staff but pointed out Vancouver has only 600,000 residents; about one-quarter of Toronto's population. An official in the office of Montreal Mayor Gérald Tremblay said there are nine policy workers in his office, plus an unknown number of support staff.

Miller yesterday said he's happy staff brought the price tag down so far and feels the proposed, new setup is a reasonable one. But council still has the last word on the renovations, and some members remain unhappy.

"I don't think we need a media studio," said Councillor Brian Ashton (Ward 36, Scarborough Southwest).

"Council members can hold a press conference anywhere they like."

Bowes told the Star that the city's four second-floor committee rooms are booked 100 per cent of the time and that the city has to turn away groups that want to use the rooms.

But Shiner said that rooms that have been booked often don't get used.

A Star survey of the four rooms on four recent days at City Hall – days when council's major committees have been in session – revealed the rooms were often empty.

In 16 combined checks, there were meetings taking place on only 10 occasions in the four-day survey period; a 62.5 per cent occupancy rate.

[hyral]

Hi, new here but I found this:

TORONTO, Feb. 16 /CNW/ - The media is invited to an advanced viewing of the four final design submissions and an opportunity to interview the design teams before the public exhibition begins at 6 p.m.
Each finalist will make a presentation about their design submission in the Council Chamber, beginning at 7 p.m.

Date: Tuesday, February 20
Time: 5 to 6 p.m.
Location: City Hall Rotunda, 100 Queen St. W.

Hopefully someone can make it today! I'm also eagerly waiting to see the designs..

[KGB]

I really don't know why there is so much bickering over a few million dollars to upgrade facilities at city hall.

I for one don't really mind at all that they budget money to keep city hall facilities properly outfitted to maximize their ability to function as best as possible. I also don't mind serious money spent to keep architectural gems in pristine condition just for the sake of it...I don't see architectural heritage as a "luxury".

They should take a lesson from the province...you don't even want to know how much they have spent on Queen's Park buildings.





KGB