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Old October 15th, 2006, 05:57 PM   #1
Downtown Mark
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Paradise circus

sorry if there is already a thread on this but after page 7 it said database error? so here i go, I just want to say how delighted i am by the renders for not only the fact there will be a highrise but more so because the museum it seems will get a new opening up to it, a new look a wider look and im dead chuffed about that because its a beauty, Its hard to explain exactly where i mean? but you know the corner of the library now is blocing the view of whats quite a long building indeed and when it gets that corner knocked out it looks like from the renders it will give us more of a wider & lovley view of the museum, Also it appears it might even get its own little bit of green grass infront of it too in that space , PARADISE CIRCUS I LOVE YOU IF THATS WHAT YOU ACHIEVE FOR OUR VIEWING PLEASURE, It will look so different and nice does anybody else agree my dear brummies?

p.s still havnt got over the fact HOOTERS was swapped for weather spoons apparantly some guy ran off with the money thats why it closed but anyway HOOTERS well now that was real pleasure viewing
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Old October 15th, 2006, 06:06 PM   #2
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Well on the High Places document there are TWO spots at Paradise Circus which are considered appropiate for highrise development. I can hardly saw I liked Hooters because I was a young whippersnapper back then. What I think that part needs as well as the rest of Chamberlain Square is a bit of greenery. A large glass block would look nice. Something overly modern may not fit in there, expecially next to Gas Hall, Council House and Town Hall. Baskerville House would not be far off.
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Old October 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM   #3
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I think the council owe ONE HELL OF A DEBT to Chamberlain Square and to Brummies in general for what they knocked down to put a) the library and b) the Queensway there.

They have a duty to push the boat out on this one and I want some payback. They need to concentrate on whatever it is that faces the Town Hall and Museum to complete the other two sides of the quad that was, if you've seen the pictures, a thing of beauty!

However, I don't think this is beyond them because we know they can produce stuff of quality if they put their minds to it - think of some of the facades they've created in Brindley Place - they don't have to try much harder in my opinion to get something nearer to the quality of what's required for Chamberlain Square.

Weep, oh weep for what is gone, and pray for a miracle!

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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:29 PM   #4
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gutted to see that beautiful building which was once there , its my first time to see it i didn't kown there was such a beauty there? As for putting a glass box there i think that would be the doing of the devil not man, Ok glass towers can work & look nice but glass boxe's shouldn't even be allowed to be made its the ultimate doom of any scene that looks nice and old. Ugly Glass box's should be smashed down & destroyed they are the plauge in Architecture design.
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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:31 PM   #5
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Have you ever seen the old Snow Hill before they knocked it down for a coupld of glass boxes? Ugly Glass boxes...
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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:48 PM   #6
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This thread is a wonder to behold - people, cast your eyes over this lot (if you've not already) and see what the council have to do to achive even half of what our forefathers did!

Snow Hill etc are a few pages in...
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Old October 16th, 2006, 12:47 AM   #7
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I think Paradise needs to be a mix of Brindley-Place-esque buildings in brick, sotne and glass of similar heights to the blocks that run along from Hill St to Snobs, and climb much higher towards Summer Row where the land falls away - the 2 tall circular towers for example.
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Old October 16th, 2006, 02:23 AM   #8
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Downtown Mark, are you referring to the speculative images released earlier in the year showing a brindleyplace esque set of blocks in the paradise circus zone?

Im afraid though we may have to wait a bit until library fiasco is sorted. Argent are redoing the inside of Paradise Forum at moment to temporarily make place better and generate revenue before they can do their brindleyplace part 2.
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Old October 16th, 2006, 06:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Robinson View Post
Have you ever seen the old Snow Hill before they knocked it down for a coupld of glass boxes? Ugly Glass boxes...
They had to knock it down. They were hoping to retain it but the damage done to it while it was closed in the 70s was irreparable and they had no choice and just so happened that boxes were popular in Birmingham at that time!

As for this place, we need something crystalline. This will give the whole road a skyscraper alley look. HCT, Orion, AC and then a couple of towers. The Cube would be peaking over just.
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Old October 17th, 2006, 06:07 PM   #10
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Old fashioned, Dirty, Unfit for purpose, bad representative for Birmingham... all things that were said about the Old Library back in the 1960's.

I think the destruction of the truly unique Central Library, would be one of the biggest mistakes Birmingham ever made. Just because it replaced another fantastic building thats not the Librarys fault, at the end of the day if it didn't work as a building it wouldnt be one of the most used buildings in the country! Sure it need a bit of cleaning, maybe a bit of work to the exterior, ie panelling replaced with portland stone as originally intended or maybe rendered in a guggenheim way, either way it needs to stay, and we need to stop destroying our heritage!
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Old October 17th, 2006, 06:13 PM   #11
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But thats a piece of heritage alot of us are ashamed of.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 01:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH View Post
Old fashioned, Dirty, Unfit for purpose, bad representative for Birmingham... all things that were said about the Old Library back in the 1960's.

I think the destruction of the truly unique Central Library, would be one of the biggest mistakes Birmingham ever made. Just because it replaced another fantastic building thats not the Librarys fault, at the end of the day if it didn't work as a building it wouldnt be one of the most used buildings in the country! Sure it need a bit of cleaning, maybe a bit of work to the exterior, ie panelling replaced with portland stone as originally intended or maybe rendered in a guggenheim way, either way it needs to stay, and we need to stop destroying our heritage!
I kind of like the library - an upturned Ziggarut; although refurbing it was not considered cost effective in the long term by BCC. I have to say, it probably is the truth. Town Hall cost £35m - the library is a hell of a lot more square footage. That's not including doing something with the voids that were never finished back in 1973.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 04:24 AM   #13
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[QUOTE=feltip;10122965]Downtown Mark, are you referring to the speculative images released earlier in the year showing a brindleyplace esque set of blocks in the paradise circus zone?

Dear Feltip yes i was referring to those earler renders which are the only ones iv'e saw so far, I really hope it shows us a bigger look at the museum fingers crossed on that one mate.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 12:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Glide View Post
I kind of like the library - an upturned Ziggarut; although refurbing it was not considered cost effective in the long term by BCC. I have to say, it probably is the truth. Town Hall cost £35m - the library is a hell of a lot more square footage. That's not including doing something with the voids that were never finished back in 1973.
The town hall was an exceptional case though, I was talking to the contractors who said they had to employ every stone mason in the midlands to get it done, they even had to bring some out of retirement! In addition the town hall required detailed work doing to the plasterwork, the pipe organ, and a host of other things associated with it 19th Century design. The Library is a different prospect, BCC have said its not cost effective to refurbish it for the Library, but in fact the main reason for this decision was the Library itself wanting a new building, the space itself is sound and could be refurbished very quickly and cost effectively for something else.

Only yesterday reading the "What Birmingham needs" thread there was much mention of an increase in museam space, At the moment BMAG has over 90% of its stuff in storage, including the majority of its pre-raphelite collection, which could bring in international visitors (the Americans particularly love the Pre-raphelites). It was also mentioned that the Tate UK has barely 2% of its stuff on show, again what better place would there be for it that the "Brave new world" of the upturned Ziggurat.

In response to Erebus, I agree most people seem to be a bit ashamed of it, but again, back in the 1960's people were ashamed of the old library! Its all a matter of perception, we are a generation that grew up with the 60's tower blocks and the Bull Ring, we don't see any merit to the architecture at all, but do we know future generations won't! In Pevsners guide to Birmingham, he sees it as THE MOST IMPORTANT BUILDING IN BIRMINGHAM, and frankly he should know.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 03:00 PM   #15
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There's no doubt at all that the Central Library is an architecturally important building, and that - costs permitting - a refurb could make it look a hell of a lot better than it actually does.

However, my problem with it is the location - the sheer size of it, and the location, seems to put a block (physically and psychologically) between Centenary Square and Victoria Square / Chamberlain Square - it almost feels like two city centres, or a very strung out centre.

This reason makes it, imho, worth losing.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 03:06 PM   #16
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Is that simply because Paradise Forum is so grotty at the moment, with the new Argent revamp, it might be substantially better, and there are plenty of places where walking through a building works fine, ICC for one.

I do think the rest of that block is potentially worth getting rid of, and could make the Library itself a lot more of a centerpiece.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 03:07 PM   #17
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It's a shame that they will build on this land again. Can you imagine the view of the Town Hall, Council House & Museum & Art Gallery as you come down Broad Street if there was nothing there but a public square??!!
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Old October 18th, 2006, 03:15 PM   #18
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I detest the Central Library, more because of what it stands for rather than architecturally.

But, to concede a point, I agree with MJH that if it were to be clad in Portland Stone, and were to have the watergardens cascading down the interior, I wouldn't mind too much if it stays.

It is completely unsuitable for a library so I would like to see a new one built elsewhere.

However, I think the idea of using the existing library as a museum/gallery is genius - it would make a perfect modern art museum and a tie-up with the Tate would be fantastic. The central atrium could be used for large installations a la Turbine Room @ Tate Modern.

However, the Conservatoire, Copthorne, GOWM and all the shite that surrounds the Central Library MUST go. It is a blight.

I don not think the above will be achieved, because in order to make the work to be undertaken viable, I think the whole site woud have to be cleared so that the extensive road remodelling can be included in a s106 agreement.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 03:15 AM   #19
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Bio,

I think you're above comment is very much on point. Economically it wouldn't be viable to clear everything else out and just leave the library standing. I often get the feeling that if everything else hadn't been built around it we wouldn't hate it so much.

I'm assuming that if the plans for Paradise Circus come to fruition that the Copthorne will be looking for new premises, am I right in saying that ?

As for going forward I've always thought the best solution for PC is just 1 big towen smack in the middle. To put this in context for those that say it would ruin the view from the Town Hall to Baskerville House, imagine say the Gherkin, on its own in the middle flanked either side by 2 fine old buildings. It would be an amazing sight imo.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 11:29 AM   #20
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I think it's right that the focus of PC be Chamberlain Square AS MUCH AS any new buildings that might go up. A Gherkin would be nice though - garnished with a few quality low rises - in a Town Hall/Big Brum sandwich.
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