Anti-Iraq war people. What do you want us to do? [Poll]

[Xtremegamer]

It's easy to criticise but not so easy to offer a viable solution... Just wanna know what you peeps actually think is now the best course of action for Coalition troops in Iraq.

[ReddAlert]

YES!

Anti-war people always go back to 2003 and never speak in the present....they never offer any ideas about what to do. Leaving Iraq will do nothing but worsen it. In the same breath--the left doesnt offer anything on the War on Terror. In America, they say stupid shit like "Iraq has made us less safe" and the usual tripe....when in fact, America has been terror free since 9/11. They are against all wiretaps, minor "torture", and things of that nature--but do not say what should be done. They just criticize.

[gothicform]

i honestly dont know. its obvious the place is completely fucked up and going off the rails bosnia style. do we stay and have a bloodbath or pull out and have a bloodbath? personally id pull out, get into afghanistan and make a real difference there whilst letting iraq burn itself out. there is no right solution to this, no easy solution.
its obvious we should never done what we did to start with, its a damning indictment of blair and bush that saddam actually ran iraq better (who'd have thunk it) and the mess its in now was predicted by millions of people in the west who said "not in my name".you didnt have to be a rocket scientist to work it out.
now though either way we lose. we stay and lose or we leave and lose. will it be more bloody if we stay or more bloody if we leave? we have no way of knowing. what i dont think is we should just wait and see, all this crap of giving iraqis more time to prepare... go read whats happening in iraq. the only thing these guys are preparing for is killing each other big time - entire police divisions have been sacked for running death squads and mass kidnappings.

[Pobbie]

Originally Posted by ReddAlert

YES!

Anti-war people always go back to 2003 and never speak in the present....they never offer any ideas about what to do. Leaving Iraq will do nothing but worsen it. In the same breath--the left doesnt offer anything on the War on Terror. In America, they say stupid shit like "Iraq has made us less safe" and the usual tripe....when in fact, America has been terror free since 9/11. They are against all wiretaps, minor "torture", and things of that nature--but do not say what should be done. They just criticize.

Well, that doesn't excuse the pro-war lobby for going all gung-ho and completely ignoring the anti-war lobby in the first place.

I was against the war before it started, but it would be extremely foolish to pull out now having committed so much. The job needs to be finished. How that happens is up to you lot, since you started it in the first place.

[jmancuso]

was vehemently anti-war back in 2002 but to pull out coalition (US & UK) forces now would be a disastor.

[qwerty1324]

Anti-Iraq war people. What do you want us to do?

Simple for me.

All the pro war people to get on their knees and admit the folowing with pictures to post of this event.

the following to admit is:

1) Iraq had no Weapons of Mass Destruction
2) Iraq had no links to Al Qaeda
3) Iraq had no links to 9/11


Then I'll be satisified. Only for about 5 minutes though.

[Kampflamm]

Originally Posted by ReddAlert

In America, they say stupid shit like "Iraq has made us less safe" and the usual tripe....when in fact, America has been terror free since 9/11.

Yes, President Bush has solved all of our problems.

Let's recap his success story:

- Afghanistan...security situation has deteriorated over the past couple of years, drug trade is is higher than ever
- Bin Laden...still on the loose
- North Korea...has acquired nuclear weapons
- Iran...is about to acquire nuclear weapons (and there ain't a thing the US can do about it)
- Iraq...a complete mess, scores of people are being killed every day, has turned into a terrorist breeding ground

Not bad, not bad at all!

[Eleinad]

Originally Posted by Kampflamm

Yes, President Bush has solved all of our problems.

Let's recap his success story:

- Afghanistan...security situation has deteriorated over the past couple of years, drug trade is is higher than ever
- Bin Laden...still on the loose
- North Korea...has acquired nuclear weapons
- Iran...is about to acquire nuclear weapons (and there ain't a thing the US can do about it)
- Iraq...a complete mess, scores of people are being killed every day, has turned into a terrorist breeding ground

Not bad, not bad at all!

- Germany... has a she-chancellor.

[sjwmoore]

Why dont we leave the middle east alone and they leave us alone?

DARPA is heavily committed to developing bio fuels for the USAF, which could make it all a reality.

[Xtremegamer]

Originally Posted by Pobbie Rarr

Well, that doesn't excuse the pro-war lobby for going all gung-ho and completely ignoring the anti-war lobby in the first place.

I was against the war before it started, but it would be extremely foolish to pull out now having committed so much. The job needs to be finished. How that happens is up to you lot, since you started it in the first place.

John Kerry and many other Democrats, as well as our own Conservative party voted FOR the Iraq invasion. Flip-flopper Kerry then decided it would be best if he jumped on the anti-war bandwagon in the hope of further tapping in to liberal america and liberal politics.

Where did that get him?

Our conservative party supported the war and still does - criticising only the handling (and yet for some reason I seriously doubt they would have done things better). The best WE had to hope for was the Lib Dems, but they're a joke.

I'm glad you realise that it is necessary for us to stay. We can't back out, we can't cut and run. It's simply not an option for us to say "let America handle it". We are just as much in it as they are, and to back out now would throw southern Iraq into disarray, leaving a window of opportunity for the terrorists.

This is not about politics anymore. It's about Iraq's future.

[gothicform]

wow... insult a politican who changes his policies when things go to shit. imagine if hitler had been a flip flopper when he noticed germany was losing world war 2, if johnson had been one when he saw that the americans were losing in vietnam... think of the people who wouldnt have died. when it comes to war we need more flip floppers.

[Xtremegamer]

Can I just ask Goth at what point do you believe things "went to shit", and what course of action should we have taken? You can't start a war and then waltz out when the going gets tough. War is never easy, and if Mr. Kerry and our Conservative MPs thought otherwise when they voted for it, they were living in cloud-cookoo land. Politicians are opportunists, it's one of the oldest tricks in book to criticise your opponent's decisions/handling of situations when there are votes to be gained (or agree with them as the case may be). This is flip-flopping. Granted - everyone plays the game to an extent, everyone who wants to win anyway.. but Kerry was well known for his 180°s and hypocrisy.

It's really not the best thing to claim "we should never have got involved in Iraq" when you voted for it in the first place. Perhaps people would have been lesss quick to lable him a flip-flopper if he had admitted he was wrong and apologised that the decisions he and other Democrats had made ultimately lead to the invasion- but lo and behold that's not what happened. The fact he supported it was conviniently swept under the rug and Kerry tried to assume the moral highground. Again, where did that get him?

I CANNOT understand people who want an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. What do you think would happen if we did that, honestly?

[future.architect]

i realy dont know about this, as much as it would be great to get the fuck out of there, it would decend into chaos and civil war within days.

[gothicform]

war is never easy but winning a peace is even harder. its no brainer. the administration by the americans was completely fucked up. they totally cut iraqis out of the loop, even for jobs like cooks and bus drivers and instead got people in from the usa to drive a bus on 2000 dollars a week. almost all the reconstruction money went to american companies rather than iraqis.
then there is the behaviour of american troops. if youre going to liberate a place its not a good idea to massacre people but thats what the americans do. i watched a video last night of an american fighter tracking a guerilla mortar team - the team started off in the countryside with no one around but the americans in their infinite wisdom waited until the team had driven all the way back home to an urban area before blowing them up.
the one thing is it is already chaos and civil war. at least 3389 iraqi civillians were killed last month alone. yesterday this happened -
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - A car bomb and a roadside bomb targeting a police patrol killed a civilian and wounded five others, including two policemen, in the New Baghdad district in the east of the capital, an Interior Ministry source said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - A roadside bomb targeting a police patrol killed five people -- three policemen and two civilians -- and wounded 12, nine of them civilians, in Baghdad's southern Dora district, an Interior Ministry source said. 2 3 5
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - Gunmen attacked a police station and killed four policemen and wounded 10 civilians, an Interior Ministry source said. 0 4 4
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - Gunmen killed an employee in the Ministry of Higher Education in central Baghdad, police said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - Gunmen shot dead police Colonel Basim Qasim in Baghdad's southern Saydiya district, an Interior Ministry source said. 0 1 1
10/19/06 BAQUBA - Three Iraqi policemen were killed in clashes with gunmen near the volatile town of Baquba, 65 km (40 miles) north of Baghdad, police said. 0 3 3
10/19/06 DIWANIYA - Gunmen killed a man as he left his house in Diwaniya, 180 km (112 miles) south of Baghdad, police said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 KHALIS - A roadside bomb ripped through a busy market, killing 10 people and injuring 20 shortly before the evening Iftar meal when Muslims break their fasting in the month of Ramadan, Interior Ministry sources said 10 0 10
10/19/06 KHALIS (near) - Gunmen killed four labourers and wounded four others in a drive-by shooting near the town of Khalis, 80 km (60 miles) north of Baghdad, police said. 4 0 4
10/19/06 KIRKUK - A car bomb killed one person and wounded eight others in Kirkuk, police said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 KIRKUK - A suicide car bomb killed two Iraqi soldiers and wounded four more some 35 km (22 miles) southwest of Kirkuk, police and the army said. 0 2 2
10/19/06 KIRKUK - A suicide car bomber killed at least eight people and wounded 70 others in the oil city of Kirkuk, 250 km (155 miles) north of Baghdad. It targeted Iraqi army troops collecting salaries from a bank, police said. 8 0 8
10/19/06 MAHMUDIYA - Several mortar rounds landed in a residential district of the town of Mahmudiya, killing two people and wounding three from the same family, police said 2 0 2
10/19/06 MAHMUDIYA - The bodies of five people were found with gunshot wounds in the town of Mahmudiya, 30 km (20 miles) south of Baghdad, police said. 5 0 5
10/19/06 MAHMUDIYA (near) - Several mortar rounds landed on a town near Mahmudiya, killing two people and wounding four others, police said. 2 0 2
10/19/06 MOSUL - Six suicide bombers in vehicles, including one in a fuel truck, attacked Iraqi police and U.S. patrols, and insurgents fired mortars and clashed with police...The violence killed at least 20 people 20 0 20

here's what i say. how are you going to fix it.

[wjfox]

Originally Posted by gothicform

the one thing is it is already chaos and civil war. at least 3389 iraqi civillians were killed last month alone. yesterday this happened -
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - A car bomb and a roadside bomb targeting a police patrol killed a civilian and wounded five others, including two policemen, in the New Baghdad district in the east of the capital, an Interior Ministry source said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - A roadside bomb targeting a police patrol killed five people -- three policemen and two civilians -- and wounded 12, nine of them civilians, in Baghdad's southern Dora district, an Interior Ministry source said. 2 3 5
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - Gunmen attacked a police station and killed four policemen and wounded 10 civilians, an Interior Ministry source said. 0 4 4
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - Gunmen killed an employee in the Ministry of Higher Education in central Baghdad, police said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 BAGHDAD - Gunmen shot dead police Colonel Basim Qasim in Baghdad's southern Saydiya district, an Interior Ministry source said. 0 1 1
10/19/06 BAQUBA - Three Iraqi policemen were killed in clashes with gunmen near the volatile town of Baquba, 65 km (40 miles) north of Baghdad, police said. 0 3 3
10/19/06 DIWANIYA - Gunmen killed a man as he left his house in Diwaniya, 180 km (112 miles) south of Baghdad, police said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 KHALIS - A roadside bomb ripped through a busy market, killing 10 people and injuring 20 shortly before the evening Iftar meal when Muslims break their fasting in the month of Ramadan, Interior Ministry sources said 10 0 10
10/19/06 KHALIS (near) - Gunmen killed four labourers and wounded four others in a drive-by shooting near the town of Khalis, 80 km (60 miles) north of Baghdad, police said. 4 0 4
10/19/06 KIRKUK - A car bomb killed one person and wounded eight others in Kirkuk, police said. 1 0 1
10/19/06 KIRKUK - A suicide car bomb killed two Iraqi soldiers and wounded four more some 35 km (22 miles) southwest of Kirkuk, police and the army said. 0 2 2
10/19/06 KIRKUK - A suicide car bomber killed at least eight people and wounded 70 others in the oil city of Kirkuk, 250 km (155 miles) north of Baghdad. It targeted Iraqi army troops collecting salaries from a bank, police said. 8 0 8
10/19/06 MAHMUDIYA - Several mortar rounds landed in a residential district of the town of Mahmudiya, killing two people and wounding three from the same family, police said 2 0 2
10/19/06 MAHMUDIYA - The bodies of five people were found with gunshot wounds in the town of Mahmudiya, 30 km (20 miles) south of Baghdad, police said. 5 0 5
10/19/06 MAHMUDIYA (near) - Several mortar rounds landed on a town near Mahmudiya, killing two people and wounding four others, police said. 2 0 2
10/19/06 MOSUL - Six suicide bombers in vehicles, including one in a fuel truck, attacked Iraqi police and U.S. patrols, and insurgents fired mortars and clashed with police...The violence killed at least 20 people 20 0 20

Where did you find this info? Can you post a URL?

[JackSwan]

this is the site i usually check: http://www.icasualties.org/oif/

[clarky]

As Tyrant Blair and his goverment still have not got the message that the British people dont want war in Iraq/Afghanistan the best solution is for the protesters to get more ruthless start riots burn cars atack mp's homes and atack parliment until Blair gives message of troops Withdrawal.

[Engels]

Ok i was pro war at the time but only just and was seriously pissed off we were lied to.

It all seemed to make sense at the time though and the anti-war moaners miss that point that things could've gone a lot better. WMD were a good excuse to topple a dictator that nobody wanted least of all the people of Iraq. Had the coalition not disbanded the Iraqi army and moved quickly to a interim administration which represented all sides then much (not all) of the subsequent bloodshed could have been avoided. There would have been less weapons in the arms of the general public, no unemployed ex soldiers and a quicker transition to a soverign Iraq interim government might have made a success of the situation.

OK that's the it should've been handeled Tory point this is where we are now....
The reality is we have a situation where there are at least two different civil wars going on in Iraq. There is the Sunni v Shia conflict that was probably unavoidable given the tendancy to a Sunni backlash after Sadam's years of rule and there is the war by insurgents against the coalition forces as a part of global jihad.

The removal of coalition forces in an orderly manner would take the heat off the Iraqi government who would be seen less as puppets of the west and more as an genuine government. This would dampen the flames of the jihadists but the impact on the Sunni v Shia conflict is uncertain. That could get worse but then it may now be an unaviodable conflict. ON the othner hand it might simplify the conflict and therefore increase the chances of resolution.

This is why i believe we need to quickly move to a timetable of withdrawl. The major offensives that have been conducted over the summer by coalition forces have failed in their objectives to crush the rebelion as any such attempts surely will. Everytime you kill a jihadist you turn his whole community against the west that is why this situation is just getting worse.

Announce now that Coalition forcers will complete a full withdrawl (and it must be a full withdrawl or remaining forces wil still be a provocation) by the end of 2007 at the latest. The usual reason given for not announcing a timetable is that it will only inspire the jihadist even more. What utter rubbish. What they really mean is that the coalition doesn't want to leave Iraq with it's tail between its legs with the whole world looking on saying that they are a part cause of the continuing violence.


It's time to anounce the timetable to leave now.

[Engels]

Originally Posted by clarky

As Tyrant Blair and his goverment still have not got the message that the British people dont want war in Iraq/Afghanistan the best solution is for the protesters to get more ruthless start riots burn cars atack mp's homes and atack parliment until Blair gives message of troops Withdrawal.

I believe what you have just said is classified as incitement to violence and as such is illegal and completely immoral too.

You are a hypocrit and an idiot.


But then considering your Avatar is of Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad two of the biggest hypocrits in the world we shouldn't really be surpised by such stupid comments.

[Kampflamm]

Clarky didn't start the fire, it was always burning.