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Old April 12th, 2009, 08:11 AM   #861
oliver999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyan_808 View Post
z0rg,南京西路1788项目最终方案只有29层130m
http://www.jfdaily.com/jsbb/shanghai...212_476061.htm


http://www.news365.com.cn/wxpd/sh/ja...12_2126822.htm
一、建设项目名称
  南京西路1788号(4507地块)项目

  二、建设项目基本概况
  项目基地位于上海市南京西路1788号,靠近华山路路口,东侧为静安寺。基地与百乐门大酒店比肩相邻,建筑功能为商业和办公楼。项目设置为一幢超高层建筑,主楼分别为29层、24层、20层,由南往北作退台处理,建筑高度约130米。商业裙房为2-4层,高度24米以下。项目用地面积为12126平方米,总建筑面积为113244平方米,地上建筑面积81438平方米(其中办公67106平方米,商业14322平方米),地下建筑面积31806平方米(其中地下商业4611平方米,其它27195平方米),绿地率10.76%,机动车停车位371辆。
http://www.envir.gov.cn/info/2008/2008512767.htm
so sad!
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Old April 12th, 2009, 11:17 AM   #862
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translation please?
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Old April 12th, 2009, 11:56 AM   #863
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You can guess the bad news
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Old April 12th, 2009, 03:43 PM   #864
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It was changed to that render?
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Old April 12th, 2009, 08:12 PM   #865
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What??? I dont get it!!

That is the design of which building?
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Old April 12th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jude12 View Post
translation please?
1788 Nanjing West Road, the final plan for the project only 29-storey 130m

First, the name of construction project
No. 1788 Nanjing West Road (4507 block) project

Second, the basic overview of construction projects
Project, based in Shanghai, Nanjing West Road, No. 1788, Huashan Road, near the junction, on the eastern side for the Jing'an Temple. Base and Paramount Hotel, shoulder to shoulder adjacent construction for commercial and office functions. Project is set to a high-rise buildings, the main building 29-storey, 24-storey, 20-storey, from south to north back to Taiwan for processing, building height of about 130 meters. Commercial podium for the 2-4 layer 24 m below the high. Project site area of 12,126 square meters, with a total construction area of 113,244 square meters, on the ground floor area of 81,438 square meters (of which 67,106 square meters of office, commercial 14,322 square meters), underground construction area of 31,806 square meters (including the ground floor of 4611 square meters of commercial and other 27,195 square meters), the rate of 10.76% green space, 371 parking spaces for motor vehicles
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Old April 12th, 2009, 08:57 PM   #867
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what was the previous plan of this project?
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Old April 13th, 2009, 05:43 AM   #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
nice to see you've responded.

let me guess. your knowledge of this topic consists of a vacation and a 'lonely planet' guidebook? that's the most plausible explanation for your absurd accusations.

you INSIST the present-day destruction of shanghai outdoes the destruction of new york, or any other comparable city of the 1960s modernist era. off the top of my head, and using examples solely from manhattan, i can list madison square garden, penn station, the singer building, the cotton exchange, the german savings bank,the herald building, and the innumerable plots in midtown manhattan occupied by modernist era boxes. they were all A-list buildings that unfortunately fell to the lure of developer profits. you can google every one of them. in other cities, 'historic' buildings were destroyed because of a need to accommodate the car and its space for parking lots and off-ramps. similarly, hong kong (and i'm picking hong kong because you just might cite me as unfairly singling out western cities as an example of the 60s lust for architectural destruction) destroyed most of its central district and replaced them with modernist boxes.

if a similar pattern of destruction occurred in present-day shanghai, you'd have to implode half of the restored and now highly-prized buildings on the bund. remember, historical architecture's value only became ingrained into peoples' consciousness in the late 60s and beyond, and the wholesale architectural destruction of that period has no contemporary equal. places like pudong were developed (as opposed to developer driven demolitions of the most convenient buildings), partly because of a recognition of the architectural merit of puxi.

many demolitions of old buildings do occur in shanghai, but the overwhelming number of the buildings in question do not have the architectural nor historical merit of the destroyed buildings of the 60s. the residential buildings have come to the end of their functional lives, and were never intended to stand permanently.
Sorry but I don't think you know what you're talking about, and you clearly haven't understood what I've been patiently explaining to you.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 08:24 AM   #869
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quote from langur
Quote:
The scale of recent destruction/construction in Shanghai is as great as that in New York or Chicago since 1949
^sheer genius. it obviously isn't. yet you just can't admit it, yet you continue to soldier on, without an argument. you cannot bring up any relevant examples, and you pass yourself off as knowledgeable... you're not.


no one gave a second thought to architectural destruction in mid 20th century because they assumed we could just replace the destroyed buildings with similar quality. unfortunately the changing dynamics of construction and labor costs meant that newer buildings would most likely not have the same level of detail. thus something as precious as penn station in new york, or the atlantic richfield building in los angeles (one of the most famous pieces of art deco ever) were summarily torn down. shanghai's boom only came AFTER a broad awareness of architectural preservation came to light. this doesn't stop all redevelopment, but it does protect the most valuable architectural works. no one's going to tear down the peace hotel. thus the most historically/architecturally relevant sections of shanghai are protected by ordinances. earlier boomtowns like new york/chicago/los angeles/hong kong/etc. did not have these protective measures in place at the time of their worst destruction.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 05:57 PM   #870
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^ You don't know what you're talking about. China does NOT have a culture of architectural preservation. They preserve scraps of hutongs (Beijing) or shikumen (Shanghai) here and there, but most has been destroyed or is up for redevelopment in the coming years. Shanghai will keep the Bund because it's a tourist attraction, also a few landmark buildings elsewhere, but much art deco (and other old buildings/styles) has already been lost, and much more will be lost in the coming years. China still associates Western buildings with the Century of Humiliation, so they're even less keen to preserve them than they are traditional Chinese buildings, which are themselves still being sacrificed on a massive scale all over China. You have an argument but it's not backed up by any knowledge or reality. Have you even been to China? I've been going for years, and all over the country. I speak/read/write the language and next year I'll be living in either Hong Kong or Shanghai (a city I've been to six times in the last few years). I think you know what was lost in America in the 60s, but you're seriously underestimating the scale of destruction of old architecture in contemporary China, and you seriously overestimate China's commitment to preservation. Contemporary China does NOT have the same culture of preservation found in the US or other Western countries. It probably never will. China has no Rome, Paris, London, Istanbul, Cairo, etc. No Chinese city, not even Beijing, is a repository of centuries of accumulated architecture. Once again there are sraps here and there. Lijiang and Pingyao are well preserved (made possible by their irrelevance as modern economic growth engines - a factor that manifestly does not apply to Shanghai), but overall the stock that has been/will be preserved in China is minimal. This is not simply a factor of rapid industrialisation, it is in fact China's traditional attitude. Even supposedly "ancient" Chinese temples have been completely rebuilt many times over. Often the only thing that is ancient about them is the site or style. Even the treasured Chinese historical cities already resemble counterparts like Kyoto in Japan or Chiang Mai in Thailand - ie 95% modern concrete with a few preserved landmarks dotted here and there (that's already the case with places like Xian or Hangzhou). That's the reality in modern China, and indeed in most of E/SE Asia.

Last edited by Langur; April 13th, 2009 at 06:10 PM.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
^ You don't know what you're talking about. China does NOT have a culture of architectural preservation.
In China and most countries in the region, the past is not an obstacle to advance towards the future, that's a good thing. They preserve what they think it's necessary. No more, no less.

Preserving old architecture is nice, but large scale preservation is useless, plus expensive. Why would a wise society want to remain trapped in an ancient city? Beijing could have never become a modern city if they had preserved 90% of its old buildings.

In Europe I sometimes feel we'll never have 21st century cities unless we change our mentality. That's not wise. Some cities look like medieval theme parks, others can't develop themselves anymore due to anti-transformation complexes and modernity-phobia in general. Add the green lobbies, add the neighborhood association mafias, we are embracing stagnation while we are losing our cultural identiy. That's called nihilism, and it's disgusting. In "Eastern Asia" they embrace progress while they keep their cultural identiy alive. Far better model imo
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Old April 13th, 2009, 07:11 PM   #872
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^ We're wondering off topic here but I disagree. Europe was itself swept by massive property and infrastructural development during its industrialisation period. Whole cities in Europe, or at least the central and inner areas, retain vast stocks of C19th architecture - and those are generally lovely buildings and our cities have beautiful liveable streets and public spaces. However our industrial revolutions are long over now. Our current rates of growth and economic transformation are much slower. There simply isn't the need or demand to sweep everything aside and redevelop anew like there is in China. Cities like Prague, Rome, Venice etc are far better for their preservation. It's E/SE Asia's loss that they have nothing that can compete. The European cities that still have a lot of economic drive, such as London, Paris, Madrid, Moscow, Istanbul etc, are building a great deal, and one decade from now we'll have a respectable collection of good skyscraper cities in Europe. We'll also have some of the finest modern airports, stadia, and generally a lot of cool and daring new buildings. However I do not think it is desirable to destroy our past. The problem with building everything at once, as they are doing now in China or Dubai, is that everything will age at once. Cities like Tokyo and Taipei, that are now beyond their industrial orgies, and are developing at a pace more comparable to that of Western cities, have been left with a gigantic stock of mediocre concrete buildings from their rapid-growth periods in the 70s and 80s. Are they attractive? No, not especially. I mean Tokyo is very cool, I love the place, but it's not beautiful - at least not by day. You guys get thrilled when you look at all the development in China, but I'm unconvinced that the end result will be attractive. Places like Guangzhou and Chongqing are pretty hideous. They're polluted and ugly. Having said that I do not propose preservation as the best way forward for such cities. It's already much too late for that, the pretty old buildings were destroyed long ago, and I think the new generation of buildings are considerably more impressive than their concrete predecessors. However I still think the end result in most Chinese cities will be unattractive when compared to cities in Europe. European cities should continue to preserve their historical centres and build cool new buildings in suitable locations and at a steady pace so that the stock does not all age at once.

Last edited by Langur; April 13th, 2009 at 07:16 PM.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #873
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z0rg what happened to the 1788 standard office building? one of my fav skyscraper <300m ?
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Old April 15th, 2009, 06:37 PM   #874
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The taller ones make the shorter ones look insubstantial.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 10:18 PM   #875
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^langur's a prime example of architectural ignorance AND the ultimate attribution error in psychology. obviously historical destruction has wracked 'other' cities, but he reserves the ultimate venom for shanghai. strangely, shanghai's stock of historical buildings (e.g. the bund) has been preserved to a higher extent compared to say... new york or hong kong.

the fact that this bonehead cites taipei and tokyo as examples of mediocre concrete architecture is not only a red herring, it also alludes to his ignorance... they're concrete and brutalist because they were built in that era. the historical architecture in e/se asia was built of wood, which leads it to deteriorate more rapidly. duh.

now do you wonder why he's been banned?
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 01:59 AM   #876
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from the render, it seems that the tower is located right in front of the river, near the water station in lujiazui =) hope we can get a higher density looking lujiazui with this building built
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 02:00 AM   #877
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also this rumor 300+? near xujiahui

source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter...t_11233284.htm

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Old April 23rd, 2009, 05:29 AM   #878
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Does anyone has any pictures of Li Ka-Shing's latest project in Shanghai Pu Xi?
Sina mentioned that he is building a large complex with the tallest tower at 300 m.
May be a new thread is needed for such large project.
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 03:37 PM   #879
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It's probably the project kix111 posted above your post.


Thanks for the renders, kix111! Haven't seen any of them before. That Xuhui project, is that close to the Shanghai Xi Zhan? Or is it in Xujiahui? Or maybe between...
Completion date in 2018 is far away though...
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 03:51 PM   #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Lotus View Post
Does anyone has any pictures of Li Ka-Shing's latest project in Shanghai Pu Xi?
Sina mentioned that he is building a large complex with the tallest tower at 300 m.
May be a new thread is needed for such large project.
Li Ka Shing is spending heavily in Shanghai. I just came cross news that Li will donate 100 million yuan to 2010 Shanghai Expo.
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