Liverpool John Lennon Airport (vi)

[Metrolink]

Indeed Stansted is pulling away from Manchester, but in orders of magnitude, Manchester, Stansted and Gatwick are very similar - about 50% difference between Manchester (smallest) and Gatwick (largest).

The gap between LPL (or East Midlands) and Manchester is in the region of 400% - not the same order of magnitude.

As others have said, I think LPL will now grow at a similar rate to other airports, like Bristol, Cardiff, Nottingham etc. They will also probably get similar routes in the future, all airports with similar profiles.

Similarly, Manchester will probably contiue to lose ground on Stansted, however, remain more than twice the size of the next largest non-London airport, and will continue to have steady growth, especially when the 787 launches.

If you need an example of how the airports compare, have a look at VLM - practically pulling out of LPL, increasing to 12 flights a day from MAN and introducing Antwerp route.

Similarly, Toronto is launched daily from MAN, but weekly from LPL - that is not due to the runway.

Also, the NY route via LPL goes via Knock half the time, and the other half doesn't the plane continue onto Stansted?

Yes, LPL will continue to grow, but not by the 40% or30% that we saw a few years ago - and those claims by some that one day MAN will end up closing due to the new competion from LPL are being shown to be a little off beam.

[bluesnapper]

The is a post somewhere on NWAN that says when comparing like with like from Liverpool and MAN to the same airport elsewhere, Liverpool carries more passengers on 28 out of 42 occassions.

For those interested, go to PPRUNE and look at some of the comments about MAN. For people that think MAN is 'the' airport it makes some depressing reading.

[liverpolitan]

Originally Posted by Metrolink

Yes, LPL will continue to grow, but not by the 40% or30% that we saw a few years ago - and those claims by some that one day MAN will end up closing due to the new competion from LPL are being shown to be a little off beam.

I can only see a slowing for a year or two - as the airport digests the huge number of new planes and routes. Forecasts of MCR closing are not based upon extrapolating trends, they are based upon future strategic decisions by the market and the state about where best to invest in capacity.

[liverpolitan]

Originally Posted by Metrolink

Indeed Stansted is pulling away from Manchester, but in orders of magnitude, Manchester, Stansted and Gatwick are very similar - about 50% difference between Manchester (smallest) and Gatwick (largest).

Oh please don't start that nonsense here. The four London airports are effectively a system, and serve largely complementary rather than competing roles for the London region. They are in a dynamic relationship to one another, and that is not just due to common ownership of three of the four London airports. So it's not really sensible to compare a provincial city airport to one of the four London Airports, it's not a like-for-like comparison.
In no sense can you compare Manchester to that enormous system - by comparison it is insignificant, plays no national role, has a tiny and fragile longhaul network and a declining share of the market in regional (European) traffic in its catchment area. It is just nonsensical to try to compare airports in this way. This "Manchester is close to London" fantasy is just embarrassing, and the sooner you learn that the better.

[Metrolink]

Ok, the two airlines that operate from both airports, on the same routes are VLM and Flyglobal. Why have both, new to both airports in recent years, invested more in Manchester than Liverpool if LPL was at such an advantage to MAN.

Faur enough if you do not want to compare MAN to any London airport, all I will say then is MAN will continue to be at least 2 times the size of the next largest non-London airport, and will most likely when the 787 launches dominate the long haul market outside of London more than ever before.

[cambrian]

The VLM route from MAN to LCY has declined in passenger numbers both in 05 and 06 however VLM has decided to increase frequency to boost the route whilst reducing capacity at LPL -of course thats up to them, but two different solutions to the same problem.

Flyglobespan are testing the water with the New York and Toronto services from LPL -if they succeed then who knows,if they fail then it may be a long time before we see any more long haul routes from LPL.

The 787 will open long haul markets upto most airports so rather than helping MAN it may spread long haul travel out to many regional airports.

I would expect LPL to grow at about 9-10% this year and less so in years after . MAN maybe at 2-3% with growth during the winter months but a decrease during the summer due to the decline in charter traffic.

[Metrolink]

cambrian - I don't understand why Global are launching at all from Manchester - surely if LPL is the future then they could easily fly daily direct to both NY and Toronto - after all, they would find far far less competition.

[cambrian]

I didnt say LPL was the future I said flyglobespan was testing the water at LPL.
Toronto is an established route at MAN globe know how many passengers will fly that route in a year -at LPL it is not clear.
We are just one of a quite a few airports that will be running a flyglobe toronto service this summer.Some will prove a success and some will not.
You are suggesting that a small carrier should set up a long haul base to two or more destinations daily at an airport that has no real history of long haul routes.That could be commercial suicide.

[bluesnapper]

Originally Posted by Metrolink

cambrian - I don't understand why Global are launching at all from Manchester - surely if LPL is the future then they could easily fly daily direct to both NY and Toronto - after all, they would find far far less competition.

Can you get the name right, its not Flyglobal/Global its flyGlobespan.

[jets9]

The long term strengths of Manchester airport are becoming very iffy......the huge benefit of the charter market is in long term decline and the prestige of the long haul market is a bit of a chimera despite the advantage of a longer runway........despite the prestige of routes to the far east the great bulk of the long haul business is concentrated on the east coast of north america and this is the very market that can be attacked by operators using the boeing 757.

So in the space of 10 years Ringways comfy business model has been shredded and the overwhelming predominance of Heathrow/Gatwick continues to depress long haul prospects........what you end up with is an airport with flat or negative growth in an expanding market, not an attractive proposition for Ringway management.

[bluesnapper]

FlyGlobespan still tinkering with the schedule and I think that the one stop via Knock to Liverpool from JFK is still not right with regard to the arrival time in Liverpool.

Anyway this is their latest attempt;

LIVERPOOL - NEW YORK JFK non stop
Monday/Wednesday/Friday/Saturday
dep LIVERPOOL 1500
arr NEW YORK JFK 1800

NEW YORK JFK - LIVERPOOL non stop
Monday/Wednesday/Friday/Saturday
dep NEW YORK JFK 2000
arr LIVERPOOL 0745 (next day)

************************************

LIVERPOOL - KNOCK - NEW YORK JFK
Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday
dep LIVERPOOL 1300
arr KNOCK 1400
dep KNOCK 1430
arr NEW YORK JFK 1800

NEW YORK JFK - KNOCK - LIVERPOOL
Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday
dep NEW YORK JFK 2000
arr KNOCK 0720
dep KNOCK 0745
arr LIVERPOOL 0845 (next day)

[cambrian]

The CAA have posted there provisional statistics for January..

Total carried 363,313 +13.9 % on JAN last year

moving annual total FEB06-JAN07- 5,006,802
Compared to FEB05-JAN06- 4,493,000

Excellent result and nice to see the 5mill marked passed if a month later than hoped !

[bluesnapper]

Originally Posted by cambrian

The CAA have posted there provisional statistics for January..

Total carried 363,313 +13.9 % on JAN last year

moving annual total FEB06-JAN07- 5,006,802
Compared to FEB05-JAN06- 4,493,000

Excellent result and nice to see the 5mill marked passed if a month later than hoped !

Glad to see the MAT go past 5million!

Here is a posting off another forum re MAN and there stats;

*********************************************

The CAA provisional figures for January are out, and more bad news for Ringway. The figure is 1,328,494 which is a fall of 0.3% from the previous January. The rolling 12-month figure is 22,121,150 a rise of 0.2%.
Meanwhile, down the road at Liverpool, the figures are much more encouraging. January saw 363,313 passengers, a 13.9% rise. The rolling 12 month total was 5,006,802 which is an increase of 11.4%.
40 million passengers at Manchester by 2015? They're dreaming! There are clearly plenty of people in the North West of England who are willing to fly, but increasingly they are turning to Liverpool instead of Manchester.

[bluesnapper]

I see that the airport is predicting another rise in passenger throughput of 12%, to 5.5million, for the calendar year 2007.

[Pietari]

Love is in the air for lucky passenger who triggers 5 million passengers per year celebrations at JLA

14 Feb 2007

Love is in the air today especially for one lucky passenger who triggered celebrations at Liverpool John Lennon Airport by helping it become a 5 million passenger per year Airport. Having just arrived at JLA onboard easyJet's morning flight from Paris, Ms Bour Laurence was just about to reclaim her luggage when Airport staff surprised her and informed her that she had just helped the Airport break through the 5 million passenger per year mark.

Arriving on Merseyside for three months of studies at the Royal Liverpool Hospital, Medical Student Ms Bour Laurence, 21, accompanied by her fellow student Mr Martineau Aurelien, 22, both from Angers, near Nantes was presented with a pair of return flights courtesy of easyJet and two nights accommodation and meal for two, courtesy of The Capital of Culture Company to return to the City during the 08 celebrations next year.

The Airport just missed reaching this milestone at the end of 2006, rounding off another record year for staff at JLA with just under 5 million passengers choosing to use the Airport representing a 13% increase in passenger business compared to 2005 with over half a million additional passengers using Liverpool.

Once again this continued growth can be largely attributed to the increase in the number of destinations available from Liverpool with a total of 28 new services introduced by a number of airlines over the past 12 months.

Highlights include Ryanair's dramatic expansion at Liverpool, having introduced 21 new services over the past year taking their total to 35 destinations served from Liverpool and carrying some 1.9 million passengers - 61% more than in the previous 12 month period.

easyJet continue to be JLA's largest customer carrying some 2.3 million passengers with new services in 2006 to Marseille, Krakow, Mahon and Faro, whilst Wizz Air carried 74,000 more passengers last year on their successful services to Warsaw, Katowice and Gdansk.

Katie Stitson, easyJet Marketing Manager for Liverpool, said: “easyJet is delighted to have carried the 5 millionth passenger from Paris to Liverpool John Lennon Airport today. easyJet is the largest airline in Liverpool and has carried over 15 million passengers from its North-West base since it began operations in 1997. Later this year easyJet is looking forward to celebrating its 10th Birthday at JLA and next year will bring millions of visitors to Liverpool as it celebrates its status as the European Capital of Culture in 2008.”

Neil Pakey, Chief Executive of Peel Airports, commented: "I'm delighted to say that JLA is now a 5 million passenger per year airport. This is a tremendous achievement for all the staff here at the Airport who worked hard to reach this milestone. We have continued to work with the airlines to develop new routes and new business to enable JLA to offer more in the way of choice to its passengers.

“This is also a great success for the region as visitors from across Europe have had more opportunity to visit the region by flying direct to Liverpool. We are now less than 11 months away from the City's Capital of Culture celebrations and with all these new cities and regions linked by air with Liverpool we are better placed than ever before to attract visitors to this great region.

"Looking ahead, 2007 will see some further significant milestones for the Airport, none more so than the important New York JFK service that starts in May and I am confident that by the start of 2008 even more new services will have been announced."

Council Leader Warren Bradley, said:

''JLA's growth is one of the great success stories of Liverpool's renaissance and a sign post to the city's long term future prosperity. Thanks to the billions being invested in new hotels, the arena or Liverpool One and the triple whammy of World Heritage status, our 800th birthday and 2008 European Capital of Culture, Liverpool is on the lips of every major tourist operator. Let's face it, tourists in Liverpool are spoilt for choice when it comes to culture, heritage and nightlife and the quality of that experience is only going to get better. And thanks to the support of Ryanair and easyJet and the upcoming New York link, the only way is up for both JLA and Liverpool.''

[GlasgowMan]

Liverpool to New York JFK with FlyGlobespan will now be operated by a Boeing 737-800.

[westisbest]

Originally Posted by GlasgowMan

Liverpool to New York JFK with FlyGlobespan will now be operated by a Boeing 737-800.

WTF is it the new NG 737?

[GlasgowMan]

Originally Posted by westisbest

WTF is it the new NG 737?

yup, brand new direct from Boeing.

[bluesnapper]

Originally Posted by GlasgowMan

Liverpool to New York JFK with FlyGlobespan will now be operated by a Boeing 737-800.

Source?

[GlasgowMan]

Originally Posted by bluesnapper

Source?

The fact that FlyGlobespan will no longer be reciving any Boeing 757s.