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Old November 2nd, 2006, 05:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesnapper View Post
?

Re Newcastle, they lost their New York route without it starting, they are losing schedules from easyJet and they are set to lose their BA Gatwick flight, so all in their garden is not that rosy.


Every airport looses links, look at the dilution of our service to Dublin as proof of that..... i also refuse to excited about fly globespan just yet as they have a great deal too prove. Prague was lost before it started .... Teneriefe diluted to go via Stanstead.... you get my drift.

The point in was making was that all of the recent announced routes are now underway apart from JFK.... and thus if Liverpool wants to sustain current growth levels then there is going to need to be a significant announcement and soon.

I for one hope there is!
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:03 PM   #42
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I am aware that airlines close routes as well, the point you made was that Newcastle has expansion on the horizon but they are losing routes notably from easyJet and BA.

As for flyGlobespan, the reason that they never started the Prague route looks as if its to do with no available aircraft. The aircraft they are using to do the Tenerife route could not have done a Prague route and hoped to have served Tenerife as well if they had any kind of delay resulting from the weather in Prague. Evidence of this point was yesterdays return to Liverpool of the Tenerife flight, it only made the cut-off for the runway closure by about 45mins and thats without the Prague flight! Also, I suspect that the runway reconstruction thats resulting in the take-off run being reduced will have had an effect on the range aircraft have departing Liverpool.

As for traffic figures don't forget that there are routes that have yet to run for a year so thats to be taken into account when judging airports throughputs.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:14 PM   #43
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Liverpool is currently running at 15% growth so far this year, if carried on to the year end this will give a final total of approx 5.1million (2005 was 4.4million).

Routes that have yet to contribute to the passenger figures for a year are;

Alghero
Ancona
Bergerac
Carcassonne
Faro
Gdansk
Grenoble
Inverness
Kaunas
Kerry
Krakow
Londonderry
Mahon (seasonal)
Marseille (seasonal)
Oslo
Porto
Poznan
Riga
Salzburg
Sanatander
Santiago DC
Seville
Tampere
Wroclaw
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Last edited by bluesnapper; November 2nd, 2006 at 06:27 PM.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:33 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesnapper View Post
I am aware that airlines close routes as well, the point you made was that Newcastle has expansion on the horizon but they are losing routes notably from easyJet and BA.

As for flyGlobespan, the reason that they never started the Prague route looks as if its to do with no available aircraft. The aircraft they are using to do the Tenerife route could not have done a Prague route and hoped to have served Tenerife as well if they had any kind of delay resulting from the weather in Prague. Evidence of this point was yesterdays return to Liverpool of the Tenerife flight, it only made the cut-off for the runway closure by about 45mins and thats without the Prague flight! Also, I suspect that the runway reconstruction thats resulting in the take-off run being reduced will have had an effect on the range aircraft have departing Liverpool.

As for traffic figures don't forget that there are routes that have yet to run for a year so thats to be taken into account when judging airports throughputs.
Sorry blue, the reason there is no PRG flight is beacuse the seats were not selling fast enough so it was cut. If the seats had been selling they would made it work its simple economics.

The PRG flt was scheduled to drepart first thing in the morning, there is still plenty of scope to utilise the aircraft prior to the teneriefe service well that was until they decided to route it via Stanstead
As for runway works... surely if a aircrft can make it too Teneriefe then it can get to Prague you only talking about a 2 and half hour flight.

I know for fact that NCL will be getting increased flights from certain operators.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:35 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesnapper View Post
Liverpool is currently running at 15% growth so far this year, if carried on to the year end this will give a final total of approx 5.1million (2005 was 4.4million).

Routes that have yet to contribute to the passenger figures for a year are;

Alghero
Ancona
Bergerac
Carcassonne
Faro
Gdansk
Grenoble
Inverness
Kaunas
Kerry
Krakow
Londonderry
Mahon (seasonal)
Marseille (seasonal)
Oslo
Porto
Poznan
Riga
Salzburg
Sanatander
Santiago DC
Seville
Tampere
Wroclaw
my point is though where are the next routes... ???? once these are accounted in the figures the only route that has not started is JFK and Malta twice a week... thats the point i am making"!
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:41 PM   #46
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Why is Sloyne in the brig?
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:47 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bustcapl View Post
Sorry blue, the reason there is no PRG flight is beacuse the seats were not selling fast enough so it was cut. If the seats had been selling they would made it work its simple economics.

The PRG flt was scheduled to drepart first thing in the morning, there is still plenty of scope to utilise the aircraft prior to the teneriefe service well that was until they decided to route it via Stanstead
They needed 2 aircraft, one to fly Liverpool to Prague/Tenerife and one for Stansted to Tenerife, but they have just the one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustcapl View Post
As for runway works... surely if a aircrft can make it too Teneriefe then it can get to Prague you only talking about a 2 and half hour flight.
I was refering to Tenerife which is at the end of the aircrafts range anyway and thats before the need to reduce the take-off weight due to Liverpools runway threshold being displaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustcapl View Post
I know for fact that NCL will be getting increased flights from certain operators.
I have given you info that easyJet and BA are cutting routes, so what info can you give me that certain airlines are putting in routes?
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:51 PM   #48
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Quote:
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my point is though where are the next routes... ???? once these are accounted in the figures the only route that has not started is JFK and Malta twice a week... thats the point i am making"!
The point I am making is that the Liverpool figures have more growth to come because, for example, Ryanair put in two more aircraft only four weeks ago which will bring in between 650k and 700k extra passengers per annum.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 06:57 PM   #49
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Why is Sloyne in the brig?
Because I'm a Nazi mod who enjoys brigging people.

Not really. If you must know, he was being overly aggressive. Gareth, Tubeman and I all agreed that he needed brigging. Some earlier posts by him were deleted which you probably missed.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 07:08 PM   #50
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Aah. Furry muff.

Can you brig Accy for being a gimp as well?
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 07:13 PM   #51
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Can you brig Accy for being a gimp as well?
Noticed that notveryACCURAte has lodged his vote for 'how pretty the Manc skyline is' poll.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 07:23 PM   #52
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Can you brig Accy for being a gimp as well?
Done!
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 07:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Think NCL (newcastle is a way off yet) as most of the recfent route announcements from LPL have started now with the only really outstanding big one being New york daily from LPL. And even if this were to be full every day woud "only" add 120,000 pax to the total. I know that NCL has also got further expansion to commence.

What we could do with is a further wave of announcements from Easyjet, RyanaIR Flyglobespan or someone new. These announcements are required if the airport is to keep up its fantastic recent development.
bustcapl I appreciate what you are saying and having seen so many false dawns at Liverpool in the past I am not one to overstate our growth,however as Bluesnapper has pointed out a lot of the new routes this year have not even run for 12 months and so we have not benefited fully yet from them, especially the extra Ryanair routes in october.
A conservative guess for next year would be 5.6million passengers through JLA this would be without any extra routes that have not already been announced but of course we may lose routes that are not proving a success.At least if this happens whilst disappointing it is not the disaster that it would have been in the past
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 07:48 PM   #54
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Ryanair are said to start a Frankfurt Hahn (2 per day) and reintroduce the Brussels Charleroi (1 per day) from Liverpool next year but until they broadcast it its no use second guessing.
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Old November 3rd, 2006, 10:14 AM   #55
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Flybe posed to take over BA Connect

It looks as though BA are selling off its loss making BA Connect to flybe. BA Connect handled flights between provincial cities and flights from provincial cities to mainland Europe. I think BA will continue to operate the flight from Ringway to JFK.

My guess is that this will make it more likely that flybe will pull out of JLA altogether to concentrate on developing its MCR base.

It currently flies from JLA to Southampton on a daily basis. Not sure how often it flies to Belfast Harbour, and it provides weekly flights to Jersey in the summer.
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Old November 3rd, 2006, 10:41 AM   #56
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Plea for local people to benefit in airport jobs bonanza

Nov 3 2006
By Sam Lister
Daily Post Staff

AIRPORT executives will be asked to push for local residents to get thousands of new jobs expected to be created under its massive expansion plans. A group of councillors called in the local authority's official response to Liverpool John Lennon Airport's plan to treble passenger numbers by 2030.

They wanted to toughen up the council's demands to create local jobs, ensure noise pollution does not get worse and protect air quality. And they criticised the public consultation carried out by the airport, insisting it had failed to properly include Speke and Garston residents.

Cllr Paula Keaveney, who called the item in before the regeneration scrutiny panel yesterday, said: "I carried out my own survey across Speke. Many people were concerned about noise, and about the ancient woodland near the site. The ward councillors were not properly consulted about these plans and the perception is that the people living in the area weren't. This is not about an attack on the airport."

The city council's executive board backed JLA's expansion plans in October although planning permission will still have to be applied for once final plans have been drawn up. The airport wants to treble passenger numbers by 2030 and increase cargo traffic from 15,000 tonnes a year to 220,000 tonnes.

The world cargo centre would be south of the complex, on Green Belt farmland around the former historic village of Oglet. This would be linked to an extended runway, up from the current 2,286m length to 2,750m.
Airport managers say the runway extension is vital to encourage flights to further destinations, and to take long-haul planes like Boeing 767s and Airbus 330s, capable of flying as far as Shanghai. The aim is to open up more routes both for passenger flights to the US and for freight links with the Far East.

The entire plan would create a total of somewhere between 7,000 and 9,000 extra jobs, which could take the number employed directly and indirectly from 2,300 to 11,300 by 2030.

More than 1,000 people lodged written responses to the airport's consultation and around 60 businesses and organisations have also responded, including train and bus operators Merseytravel and Arriva. Cllr Richard Oglethorpe, chairman of Garston Neighbourhood Committee, said: "If you live in Speke you can expect to be woken up in the middle on the night. The council's response is too passive. The council should put forward views about what it wants to see from the airport."

The committee moved that JLA should be asked to carry out more consultation and that it should continue with its efforts to employ local residents. Robin Tudor, from the airport, said: "We employed a company who specialises in leaflet drops but that was just one part of the consultation."
-----------------------------------------------

I think it should employ as many locals as possible.

It's the best way of shutting them up.
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Old November 3rd, 2006, 12:32 PM   #57
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Quote:
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It looks as though BA are selling off its loss making BA Connect to flybe. BA Connect handled flights between provincial cities and flights from provincial cities to mainland Europe. I think BA will continue to operate the flight from Ringway to JFK.

My guess is that this will make it more likely that flybe will pull out of JLA altogether to concentrate on developing its MCR base.

It currently flies from JLA to Southampton on a daily basis. Not sure how often it flies to Belfast Harbour, and it provides weekly flights to Jersey in the summer.
I've never formed impression that flybe has a proper commitment to Liverpool, hope I am wrong. As for BA Connect, it is a completely lost cause. I wrote to them when they were restructured and asked if they had or would look at a Gatwick - Liverpool service, believing they'd potentially make more money out of that than competing with flybe on the Gatwick - Belfast route. They did not even reply. They were still in the old BA "corporatist" mindset in which Liverpool region is merely a 2m population catchment area for services out of Ringway. "We don't fly to or from Liverpool" seems to be a BA mantra. The guy who runs "JET2" has the same old-fashioned and blinkered mind-set - I sat next to him on a Gatwick - Manchester service and in discussion told him I wanted a Gatwick - Liverpool service, and he said never, it wasn't in his business plan, and he believed people would drive that little bit further to use Manchester. After all, I was using the route, wasn't I? He totally failed to appreciate the future, and the fact that many people use public transport to access airports for business travel. Last time I use that route, some weeks ago, there were less than 20 people on the plane, and it had been franchised out to an operator called Flightline using an ancient Avro, so plainly it's not working for them. But will he be enterprising and try an unexplored market? No. The old thinking is ingrained in some old minds in that industry.

One business model I can see for BA Connect is that they go upmarket and provide an all first class service, a sort of domestic / short-haul business-only service that will justify the very high ticket prices. A first-class product that involves the "fast" queue not just for check-in but critically now also for security (like the one for 1st class passengers at Gatwick - saves them half an hour of the scrum to get the opportunity to take their shoes off), and baggage etc. Also, potentially, such a first class product coud link up with one of the long-haul executive airlines that operate London - New York or Frankfurt - New York, providing inter-lining for no-expense spared fat-arsed businessmen.
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Old November 3rd, 2006, 04:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesnapper View Post
They needed 2 aircraft, one to fly Liverpool to Prague/Tenerife and one for Stansted to Tenerife, but they have just the one.



I was refering to Tenerife which is at the end of the aircrafts range anyway and thats before the need to reduce the take-off weight due to Liverpools runway threshold being displaced.



I have given you info that easyJet and BA are cutting routes, so what info can you give me that certain airlines are putting in routes?
alright blue, if you look at the original timings for the PRG service it was utilising one a/c LPL-PRG-LPL-TFS-LPL it was always going to be one a/c.

Wheres the logic in basing two aircraft to do two sectors each a day... a bit of a no brainer.

The runway works are hardly a secret they have been know about for two years... also i think GSM are using B2 powered 737 engines and would suggest that TFS is still acheiveable as the runway distance has only been reduced by 150m.

Regarding NCL just trust me! I am confident of further route development there!
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Old November 3rd, 2006, 04:36 PM   #59
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bustcapl I appreciate what you are saying and having seen so many false dawns at Liverpool in the past I am not one to overstate our growth,however as Bluesnapper has pointed out a lot of the new routes this year have not even run for 12 months and so we have not benefited fully yet from them, especially the extra Ryanair routes in october.
A conservative guess for next year would be 5.6million passengers through JLA this would be without any extra routes that have not already been announced but of course we may lose routes that are not proving a success.At least if this happens whilst disappointing it is not the disaster that it would have been in the past

I agree, but the point i was making is that we need to be hearing of new routes now... the likes of EZY and RYR normally allow for at least a 4 month lead in period if not six months. i am as keen for the airport to continue to develop as you are!
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Old November 3rd, 2006, 04:37 PM   #60
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Ryanair are said to start a Frankfurt Hahn (2 per day) and reintroduce the Brussels Charleroi (1 per day) from Liverpool next year but until they broadcast it its no use second guessing.
I have heard about hahn for the past 3 years and it is yet to materialise.... Charleroi has been tried and be axed... i would be suprised to see this one back on the radar.
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