Green Bay Development News

[GBSurveyor]

Originally Posted by Green Bay 4 Life

Port Plaza, aka Washington Commons, aka the Dead Zone (Just the mall) is 411,260 SF. The JC Penny building is 152,142 SF.

Thanks fo the info.

Not sure if you googled Port Plaza or not but this listing is hilarious... sort of, or maybe just depressing. Wikipedia listing
At least it didn't make it to deadmalls.com , yet.

[Green Bay 4 Life]

Originally Posted by GBFAN

I do get abit confused by the stadium area. Would you know where (St or intersection) Green Bay / Ashwaubenon border is?

I'm more of a visual kind of guy...

Anything north of the red line is Green Bay. South is Ashwaubenon. Ashland Avenue is on the right side of the photo and just west is the Tundra Lodge. The site just west of that is where the proposed towers are to be constructed....

[GBFAN]

wow , okay I got it. Thanks GB Surveyor and GB 4 life. Any word on the street on the Washington Commons?

[Puant]

On this forum, we spend a lot of time complaining about places around town that suck and at the same time we dream about what the future could bring.

But what are your favorite existing places around town, and why? Do you choose to spend time at these places because it's where other people go, or because you like the food or product, or because of its environmental setting?

What about public areas? What are your favorite public places, including streets or parks, where you can feel free to walk around and do whatever without having to buy something?

I guess I'd like to avoid the usual easy answer, which is Lambeau Field. Like anyone, I love to be there on a Sunday afternoon during a game (especially when the Packers win, which is a rare event these days!). I'm more interested to know what other places you like to go.

[GBSurveyor]

Originally Posted by Puant en la Baye

On this forum, we spend a lot of time complaining about places around town that suck and at the same time we dream about what the future could bring.

But what are your favorite existing places around town, and why? Do you choose to spend time at these places because it's where other people go, or because you like the food or product, or because of its environmental setting?

What about public areas? What are your favorite public places, including streets or parks, where you can feel free to walk around and do whatever without having to buy something?

I guess I'd like to avoid the usual easy answer, which is Lambeau Field. Like anyone, I love to be there on a Sunday afternoon during a game (especially when the Packers win, which is a rare event these days!). I'm more interested to know what other places you like to go.

Bay Beach and the Wild life Sanctuary (especially the raven & Coyote) are tops in the summer, the NEW ZOO is nice, I also spend a lot of time hiking at the arboretum at UWGB and Baird Creek, Roller Blading at Meadow Brook Park and the Fox River Trail. The National RR museum is cool, Neville Museum, Art Garage, (some cost involved), for eats, Titletown, St. Brendon's, Blackstone and Pearly Gates. Can't forget about the downtown farmer market or maybe my favorite the tuesday night concert at St. James park, but probabaly best of all, (for Green Bay at least) I always seem to drag the family downtown to look up at the tall steeples at the downtown churches, passing freighters or just people watching. Probably pretty lame to most, but spending time with the family is the best.

[sr22ger]

I'll second St Brendans....awesome facility. Food is good, wide selection of draught beers and a great atmosphere. They will often have live folk music on the weekends. Plus the hotel is really nice itself. Anyone looking for a romantic place to take your wife/girlfriend should check out the rooms there, make a night of it. Pretty decent price for the rooms too.

Hinterland is a great place to eat as well. I travel a lot for work and have even found their custom brews out of state before.

UWGB men's basketball at the Resch is a great sporting event to see (kinda biased because I'm an alum).

[Green Bay 4 Life]

The places that really get me going…

Joliet Park along the Bay of Green Bay for sunsets.

Walking around the Astor Historic District. It is really cool to see all of the grand old homes that exist in this area. I plan on doing a photo spread on this area soon and am currently going through my pictures to determine my favorites.

Baird Creek Parkway – walking the trails and being within a city, but feeling you are in the middle of nowhere.

Driving along Bay Settlement Road. The view of the Bay and back towards downtown is pretty amazing. I sure do wonder what it may look like when there are some taller towers downtown.

Not in Green Bay but close. Playing golf at Ledgeview Golf Course, a.k.a. Mystery Hills. The views of the City are incredible up on Scray’s Hill. Again, a perfect opportunity for some fantastic photo opportunities in the future.

Hinterland Brewery and 10-0-1 Club for dinner. Wally’s Spot for dinner and to meet some pretty local people with great stories, at the bar. I do miss John Paul Bistro though on Main. Have not been to the restaurant that replaced it.

In terms of bars… Ned Kelly’s mainly for the type of music played and beer pong on Thursday nights, Brewbaker’s when it isn’t too busy, the Firehouse is a pretty cool bar as well. And who can pass up the Cock & Bull?

What Green Bay needs is a better music venue. Something between the Riverside and the Resch Center. Ala the Rave in Milwaukee. I guess I am biased as I love music and the music scene really kind of blows here…

But my favorite place to be will be the boardwalk when Astor Place, River Center, River Tower, and the rest of the downtown development is done. Hands down – except Lambeau Field of course.

[Green Bay 4 Life]

Just a curious question. If Associated ever signed on to be a major tenant in one of the proposals that are kicking around, does anyone here think that the white neon that is present on their existing headquarters should be incorporated into the new building design. Again, this is completely hypothetical. I know it may sound cheesy (excuse the pun for Green Bay), but you think of the tower in Dallas with the green argon filled gas lights that outline that tower. All you have to do is see it once, figure out that is the Dallas skyline, and every time you see a shot of a skyline – that building defines that you are looking at the Dallas skyline. There are other examples around the country of buildings that do the same. Like the office tower in Charlotte that was shown on MNF a couple weeks back, lit up in blue. I think a tower like that would truly stand out in the proposed skyline and add some definition that is severely lacking at night. I guess when you think of the Astor Place tower being residential, once people go to sleep – off goes the lights. At least that seems to be present theme in the Riverfront Lofts building which is hardly visible at night (although that may change if the boardwalk lights up that area. With talk about lighting up the Bellin Building (even the fire escape) it got me thinking that the Courthouse lights up the dome, churches shine flood lights on the steeples, yet no building except the Nicolet Bank Building has really shown off their building at night. People that know the Associated Bank Building at night, know the white neon that outlines the top, I think that would be a perfect transition to a new building… Oh well – I just don’t see an element on the proposed Astor Place tower that will be lit up on top, with it being a flat roofed design and all. Of course if they never move to a new building or sign on, this is a mute point – but it brings up a question for proposed buildings downtown…

[Puant]

If Associated Bank builds on the existing site Meyer Theater/Daily Planet site, I would assume they'd tie the existing Art Deco design to the new structure. If that's the case, then some cool lighting would be quite appropriate because that sort of design lends itself well to lighting--though not usually neon tubes--intead you usually see flood lighting cast upon the facade to accentuate the textured pattern of the facade. Look at some of the nice Art Deco towers around the country--Tulsa Oklahoma actually has some great Art Deco buildings that are of an appropriate scale for Green Bay (New York of course has some great Art Deco towers but the most well-known are giants such as the Chrysler building). Tulsa's buildings are really snazzy.

That said, while I like Art Deco, I'm not sure that we need to go back in time like that. We've seen what happens when someone tries to replicate "old world' Green Bay (ala Baylake city center). It just doesn't feel "right"...as Dan said, it's kitsch.

But hopefully there is a matching design that ties in to the existing Theatre, yet is contemporary and classy. As I've said before--I'm anxious to see what's proposed and even more anxious to see that corner get redeveloped nicely.

[Puant]

The Press-Gazette is once again asking readers what they think should happen to the Downtown mall, now that the lawsuit is settled (here's the article)

I went out on a limb and gave my $0.02 earlier this year. Now it's your turn to come up with an even better idea and submit it to the P-G. Maybe some of our ideas will sink into some developer's head. We can only hope, right?

I've personally changed my mind from what I posted on this website in February. I've been very close to taking that site down lately. Again, here's why:

• The city's 2000 plan for a restored street grid is better than my street plan (I had not seen the city's when I drew up the web site concepts)
• I'm shying away from the idea of tall towers downtown. Sacrilege for skyscrapercity forumers, I know, but I am starting to believe we can have a great downtown without having to build towering behemoths that look good from afar but tend to wreak havoc on people near the base of them. A few towers no taller than Astor Place would be fine, but probably no more.
• let the site be carved up into smaller parcels and redevelop over time. I'm impatient but I'm starting to understand that building great places simply takes a lot of time.

I do, however, still believe an atrium would be a great community benefit: It would provide walkability in an otherwise oversized block; it would create public gathering space (even in inclimate weather) and it would lend some credence to a revitalizing downtown and attract even more business. The layout of it needs to be changed from where i had it--perhaps moved to the center of the block (south) and connected to Baylake Bank.

Whatever happens, let's just hope that the city, the developers, and the citizens of this city can understand this is our downtown, the urban core of our community, and needs to be designed as such. Great buildings are one thing, but also, any spaces inbetween each individual building should be just as important and of high quality as the buildings themselves. It should be a coherent, well designed place. Let's not build another clusterfuck of cheapass buildings surrounded by big ugly parking lots, stupid looking signs, and other junky unwalkable, uninteresting shit that fills the spaces between just about every other new development in this city. That's what I think we all fear the most.

[GBSurveyor]

Originally Posted by Puant en la Baye

The Press-Gazette is once again asking readers what they think should happen to the Downtown mall, now that the lawsuit is settled (here's the article)

I went out on a limb and gave my $0.02 earlier this year. Now it's your turn to come up with an even better idea and submit it to the P-G. Maybe some of our ideas will sink into some developer's head. We can only hope, right?

I've personally changed my mind from what I posted on this website in February. I've been very close to taking that site down lately. Again, here's why:

• The city's 2000 plan for a restored street grid is better than my street plan (I had not seen the city's when I drew up the web site concepts)
• I'm shying away from the idea of tall towers downtown. Sacrilege for skyscrapercity forumers, I know, but I am starting to believe we can have a great downtown without having to build towering behemoths that look good from afar but tend to wreak havoc on people near the base of them. A few towers no taller than Astor Place would be fine, but probably no more.
• let the site be carved up into smaller parcels and redevelop over time. I'm impatient but I'm starting to understand that building great places simply takes a lot of time.

I do, however, still believe an atrium would be a great community benefit: It would provide walkability in an otherwise oversized block; it would create public gathering space (even in inclimate weather) and it would lend some credence to a revitalizing downtown and attract even more business. The layout of it needs to be changed from where i had it--perhaps moved to the center of the block (south) and connected to Baylake Bank.

Whatever happens, let's just hope that the city, the developers, and the citizens of this city can understand this is our downtown, the urban core of our community, and needs to be designed as such. Great buildings are one thing, but also, any spaces inbetween each individual building should be just as important and of high quality as the buildings themselves. It should be a coherent, well designed place. Let's not build another clusterfuck of cheapass buildings surrounded by big ugly parking lots, stupid looking signs, and other junky unwalkable, uninteresting shit that fills the spaces between just about every other new development in this city. That's what I think we all fear the most.

I think that I pretty much agree with all of you points, however, fundamentally, Green Bay is not very dense. We need to continue to build up density (Apartments, flats, condos, just not town homes!). If change is going to occur, which I don't think it will be this generation, we need to start thinking differently. We are to auto dependant (myself included), to make a place really walkable/livable, you have be able to restrict auto use, not require 1.5 parking spots per unit. Horrible example, but go over to Bay Park Square, they have been increasing the retail density and people have adapted. Downtown, I am sure has much, much more parking then out at Bay Park, and I still here people complain that the thing that killed the mall was a parking shortage. And I am not going to lie, people would balk at any idea of decreasing auto density downtown, but it is pretty sad that you have to market free parking as a selling point.
Anyways there I go again rambling...
so for the mall site to prosper.
1) restore as much as the street grid as possible.
2) make a nice public square or plaza.
3) develop a lower cost housing with the option of no parking included (people become resourceful when it come to money) 1 parking spot is probably close to 200 sq. ft.
4) retail is needed, bring back a Osco/CVS/Walgreens, they have most of your daily necessities.(skip the parking lot)
5) grocery is vital to walk ability-Trader Joes would be great.(again, skip the parking lot)
6) Property tax abatement/rent credits for a year lease or more. (I have read about how this has worked wonders)
7) Keep bringing in the dining options. ( I know how everybody despises Starbucks, but that would be a very, VERY positive sign).
8) NO SURFACE PARKING
THINGS NOT TO DO...
1) Create surface parking
2) Restrict the type of buildings found on South Washington St. Although they are very nice looking buildings, they are no good to walk to/through.
3) create gaps between buildings.

I am sure I could go on and on, but I guess my point is this is not a suburban area, make it a downtown, the way it once was, and maybe just maybe we can keep a few people from leaving here after school.

[Bay2Bay]

Ditto to the two posts above. It would be great to see the mall torn down and the street grid put back in.

It would also be nice to see Macy's locate in downtown GB (River Center Mr. Denk?). Green Bay is probably the largest metro area in the country where they don't have a store. Of course, if they did enter the market they'd probably build in Ashwaubenon.

The coments about new buildings surrounded by parking lots is something the zoning has to tighten up on. You're right in stating how nice the buildings look and correct in noting that we're talking about a downtown and not a suburb. Parking should be either hidden by landscaping, underground, or above retail space in ramps.

[Fillmore]

Hello Everyone,
I had a lot of reading to do this morning on this forum. I was overseas for quite a long time, but am glad to see downtown is (slowly) creeping forward. I did stop at the Trader Joe's on my way through Milwaukee at the new Bayshore Mall. TJ's, as I have said before, would be an absolutely perfect fit for our new downtown. The people of north Milwaukee are eating it up, and I think, like Starbucks, TJ's will make it's way north sooner or later. My fear though is that Appleton will get first dibs unless all of us, and our spouses, and our spouses' friends, and our spouses' friends' friends send countless letters to TJ's and beg them to come to our city. I know it is not that easy, but I do know that the corporate office in California, which is comprised of hippies , would love our grass roots approach. Who knows..... Anyway, to see the improvements made over the past few months is just awesome, and I look forward to the day when we have a new downtown we won't be afraid to show people. Stay Positive http://traderjoes.com/contact_us.html

[Bartles53]

I know a couple people mentioned they are planning to attend this. I'm really looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say. Based on this article it looks like the re-opening of the street grid is likely to happen and I'm also intrigued by the Wi-Fi idea. I'm anxious to hear the attendees' take on the presentation...


Posted November 28, 2006

Leaders to update public on progress of downtown Green Bay

Several projects already are under way, in the works

By Mike Hoeft
mhoeft@greenbaypressgazette.com


Citing a growing confidence in downtown redevelopment, Green Bay leaders will present a public update Thursday morning on several positive efforts in the works.


Several hundred people are expected to attend the Good Morning Downtown update at the Meyer Theatre.


"We wanted the entire community to be invited and hear first-hand what's happening," said Jeff Mirkes, executive director of Downtown Green Bay Inc.


Mirkes said he expected announcements on several topics:



New business. Up to seven business announcements on a variety of projects planned downtown. Some existing businesses are showing a commitment by relocating downtown, Mirkes said.


Waterfront development. Milwaukee developer John Vetter is expected to give a brief update on construction of the Astor Place condominium project near Main and North Washington streets. Vetter and fellow investors plan mixed commercial, retail and residential buildings in addition to their completed Riverfront Lofts project a half-block south of the site. The new projects will include renovation and partial destruction of the former Younkers department store.

Carl Weber, Green Bay public works director, will share news on infrastructure work and the city's boardwalk project.


Also, a local public relations and marketing company has been selected to head branding efforts for waterfront development.


"It's important as a community to know what we call this destination," Mirkes said. Strategy for identifying the most appropriate name will be discussed. There will be opportunities for corporate sponsorship and naming rights.



Wi-Fi. A committee evaluating free Wi-Fi access near the downtown waterfront is close to implementing the process.

"We'll learn more how that is evolving. The exact geographic area is still being determined," Mirkes said.


Wi-Fi — short for wireless fidelity — allows people to log onto the Internet without using a wired connection. Wi-Fi technology already is available at Green Bay businesses on a small scale. Several Wisconsin cities are trying to blanket entire neighborhoods with wireless access in efforts to stimulate economic growth.


"It would be an appropriate amenity for residential users, visitors and nearby businesses," Mirkes said.



Mall redevelopment. Earlier this month the Green Bay City Council approved a three-way settlement of lawsuits between the city, Baylake Bank and Development Associates, the owners of the closed Washington Commons mall. Ending the litigation clears the way to sell, redevelop or raze the 7-acre site.

Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt will discuss a conceptual vision for the area and reintroduction of the street grid system.


"There appears to be stronger interest now that a settlement has been reached," Mirkes said.

[Puant]

[QUOTE=GBSurveyor;10624300]...not require 1.5 parking spots per unit.... no parking included ...skip the parking lot....(again, skip the parking lot)
8) NO SURFACE PARKING
THINGS NOT TO DO...
1) Create surface parking
QUOTE]
You are pretty much right on with your anti-parking lot statements. The restored street grid and many new street parking options (as well as the fact most of the restored streets will butt right up to the existing parking ramps) will help people get past the perception that there is a parking shortage downtown. At least that's what I hope.

And I agree with your observation about South Wash.---that whole part of "downtown" where every building is situated in the middle of big god-awful ugly ashphalt parking lots--some right up to the foundations! It's just hideous. I don't even know how they can call that "downtown"--they have to put up the banners on the light poles that say "downtown district" just to try remind you that you're in the center of the city, not in the middle of "no mans land". That's what I have always called it. That area, especially on South Adams St, is just nasty. There are more "dead zones" downtown than the old mall site.

On the other, optimistic hand, I'm glad and excited about Thursday's Good MOrning Downtown. Thanks to all who put that event together (Jeff M. and others)..

[titletown]

WBAY: At a news conference taking place at noon, The Salvation Army is announcing Green Bay will be one of the few cities across the country to be home to a multi-million dollar community center.

The Salvation Army in Green Bay will get $30 million to build and operate a Ray and Joan Kroc Community Center.

Plans for the huge facility include classroom space for before- and after-chool programs, a gym, fitness center, pool, and ice rink.

To be eligible for the donation for a Kroc Center, the local Salvation Army chapter raised $7.5 million locally to support the facility, which it worked toward for more than two years.

[Green Bay 4 Life]

It's about time this was finalized. But alas, good things come to those who wait and in this case the City of Green Bay. I believe this facility will be a highly appreciated fixture on the east side of Green Bay. Hopefully some renderings will be released. I'm not expecting anything, grand - but for $30 Million to build and operate... That could be a pretty unique building. Maybe include some "green" elements into the design. That would go along way to not only help the community on a social level but also an environmental level as well.

[downtownVital.org]

Hello,
I've put my editorial up on the website now, along with some of the interesting quotes. I still plan on posting the full transcripts, but what a pain in the rear. I spent 2 hours on that last nigh and got though only about 20 minutes of converstion. Ugh.

Anyway, this should be a good warm-up for Good Morning Downtown tomorrow morning, I hope to see you there (even if I wouldn't know what any of you look like!).

The editorial is at: http://www.downtownvital.org/html/editorial1129.htm

[Green Bay 4 Life]

Good editorial...it will be interesting to read the rest of the interview transcripts.

It is weird to hear that people don't think Site 4 is sexy enough. Makes me wonder, I guess, what isn't sexy about it? It is a corner site. Walnut Street is a heavily traveled east/west arterial into downtown, Washington Street will become more and more heavily traveled as it is now open back to Main Street and with the continued development along the waterfront, the site is on the future boardwalk and is on the river, it is across the street from a parking ramp, should I keep going? I guess it could come from the size of the site. When it was split in half to make room for the Nicolet National Bank (which don't get me wrong - I love that building) it may have lessened the attractiveness the amount of floor area you could develop or utilize per floor. That is why many businesses moved out to the 'burbs to have everyone on one or two floors, to be more connected with your fellow employees, oh that and parking and $$$. Maybe Nicolet would have been better on a different site? Hindsight is 20/20, but it is what we have and someone needs to step up at sometime in order to complete what hopefully will be the final piece on the east riverfront. From the transcript it said the deadline for Astor contacts was Thanksgiving. Well, that day has passed fellow posters. Maybe that is the big announcement for tomorrow. To actually say "we are breaking ground". It will be interesting to see any update on the mall redevelopment. Again, from the article, it may be just rehashing what we already know, but they need something to get people fired up like there is a "plan" or an "idea".

[downtownVital.org]

I was surprised about Vetter's characterization of site 4 as well. It seems to me that that is the premier site in all of the downtown, even with Nicolet next door (incidentally, I think it was absolutly the right thing to break that site up). I think the general feeling is that site 4 will be an easier sell once the other projects are completed. Also, it will be easier to determine what uses will work at site 4 at a later time too. I mean, if Astor Place and River Center both essentially full upon completion, that would be a strong sign that site 4 can support a fair amound of residential along with other uses, but if AP and RC are, say, 50-75% full, more high end condos proabably will be less likely to work. I have a feeling River Center will sell out easily, so that leaves Astor Place.

As for tomorrow, I'd be surprised (delighted, but surprised) if they announced they were ready to break ground on Astor Place. Vetter's goal was to know where they stand by Thanksgiving. Now maybe where they stand is ready to break ground, but I got the impression the main idea was to get an idea where the origianal reservations stood in order to move ahead with sales. We'll see.

On the mall site, I saw a rendering the Mayor had of the area with the streets through and what type of development he'd like to see there. So I'm guessing that will be presented tomorrow. It was nothing too spectacular, but it was very solid and I thought a good goal... it was achievable. I think what I saw was the sort of thing that will be very good to help set the vision and agenda for that site, which is what is needed. Beyond that, I have heard some things about how interest has increased for development within that site now that the ownership issues are cleared up. It would be awesome if they had a developer ready to make a proposal there. I don't know that things are to that point yet, but at least people can start to see that there is a vision and that things are beginning to move ahead at that location again.