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Old December 21st, 2013, 09:57 PM   #11501
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More stops on the downtown tour of holiday lights and decorations. Photos from DGBI and OBI.
My hopes are that in 5 years when those photos are taken again there will be more people walking along the sidewalks.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 02:08 AM   #11502
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Pretty much the quality of the interiors is going to be the same as any other new place. I went to the first Open House for Riverfront Loft Condos back 7 years or so ago and wasn't impressed at all with the quality of workmanship or materials used. Inside it looked like a typical apartment unit at East Park Estates on Sycamore Drive. There was no custom milled woodwork or artisan crafted built-ins, basically just a $900mo. quality apartment suite selling for a quarter $Mil. What's important are the convenient amenities available within the building and outside surrounding areas. So overall, Metreau and City Deck are going to be equivalent in comparison regarding those issues.
Do you have some inside info on the interior quality of either of these places? Just because you went to an open house for riverfront loft condos doesn't really seem to be a valid premise to lump all of these developments together. I think jrpros stance sounds like a smart one. Let's at least give these apartments a chance before condemning them, you know?
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 05:14 AM   #11503
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Pavement joints? Yes, I know that there are drivers too #*^%ing stupid to follow painted lines and they must follow the damn cracks in the street, (I wish at some point these mysterious sideshow freak drivers would be brought into the ring so we can point, laugh and throw rotten vegetables at them), but we don't design streets for the most stupid drivers. But, if it needs to be idiot-proof, the existing cracks can easily be filled in and new cracks can be cut in. It will only take one day to do this, it's not a project-ending issue!!! [WHO THE HELL KEEPS SUCKING ALL THE OXYGEN OUT OF THE ROOM?!?!?! ARGH!]
The pavement joints thing is real. It's not always an issue, but at night with poor weather, it can get hard to see the painted lines at all. In those cases people tend to use the joints since there's a high correlation between joints and lines on most roads. It's not an insurmountable problem, but it does need to be considered when roads are re-striped.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 07:37 AM   #11504
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Do you have some inside info on the interior quality of either of these places? Just because you went to an open house for riverfront loft condos doesn't really seem to be a valid premise to lump all of these developments together. I think jrpros stance sounds like a smart one. Let's at least give these apartments a chance before condemning them, you know?
I'm not condemning so much as making the observation that there isn't much difference in quality as far as materials used and workmanship in the housing industry today. I'm going to wait just like everyone else and hopefully I'll be quite pleasantly surprised and satisfied.

I do have concerns about the speculators though.

OK, QUESTION FOR FORUM MEMBERS:

Who thinks we need another early morning ham 'n' egger place for breakfast in the immediate downtown? Al's Hamburger can be pretty busy in the morning and not have any seats when you go for breakfast. Do you think DT could support another breakfast & lunch diner serving bacon 'n' eggs all day?

I'm going to put this question in a separate post on this thread.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 07:40 AM   #11505
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Do We Need Another Early Morning Breakfast Joint Downtown?

OK, QUESTION FOR FORUM MEMBERS:

Who thinks we need another early morning ham 'n' egger place for breakfast in the immediate downtown? Al's Hamburger can be pretty busy in the morning and not have any seats when you go for breakfast. Do you think DT could support another breakfast & lunch diner serving bacon 'n' eggs all day along with some killer nom, nom, nom specialty sandwiches?
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 09:57 AM   #11506
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OK, QUESTION FOR FORUM MEMBERS: Who thinks we need another early morning ham 'n' egger place for breakfast in the immediate downtown? Al's Hamburger can be pretty busy in the morning and not have any seats when you go for breakfast. Do you think DT could support another breakfast & lunch diner serving bacon 'n' eggs all day along with some killer nom, nom, nom specialty sandwiches?
There's the Black Stone too. But yes, I think it would be good. White Dog has a great brunch but it's really busy on Sunday. Remember Uprisings? That place was good.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 10:33 AM   #11507
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The pavement joints thing is real. It's not always an issue, but at night with poor weather, it can get hard to see the painted lines at all. In those cases people tend to use the joints since there's a high correlation between joints and lines on most roads. It's not an insurmountable problem, but it does need to be considered when roads are re-striped.
Do you have scientific case study information on this phenomenon of people not being able to see lines and idiotically following joint cracks?

And the traffic count on E. Walnut at night is, like 2 vehicles every minute? Is that enough congestion to warrant this obscenely overkill over-thinking possible highly un!@#$#&+^ thinkable bizarro-dimension problem that MAY, MAY occur?! Really, people gotta get a grip on reality here. The speed limit is 25 MPH! The whole notion of this IS COMPLETELY INSANE!
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 10:49 PM   #11508
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Rockwood Lodge



Rockwood Lodge while it was still burning on January 24, 1950. ESPN The Magazine writer David Fleming
says efforts to save the building from the fire “seemed to lack urgency.” Press-Gazette photo.




ESPN: The Mysterious Fire at Rockwood Lodge

In an article in ESPN The Magazine titled “Blaze of Glory,” writer David Fleming calls the fire January 24, 1950, that destroyed Rockwood Lodge — the training facility of the Green Bay Packers at the time — mysterious and says the insurance settlement from the loss saved the team from financial ruin. “Rockwood Lodge was home to either the most perfectly timed spark of good luck any destitute franchise has ever known — or the most fantastic crime in NFL history,” says Fleming.

Rockwood Lodge was built in 1937 as a retreat for Norbertine priests; the Norbertines during the period operated St. Norbert College and St. Norbert High School in De Pere and Central Catholic High School in downtown Green Bay. Rockwood Lodge was located on a limestone bluff some 100 feet above the waters of Green Bay, about six miles northeast of the current Green Bay city limits; the site is now Cecil Depeau Bay Shore Park. The Packers purchased the 53-acre estate in 1946.

The site featured the 40-room, 1½-story limestone lodge, which the Packers converted into a state-of-the-art football facility complete with lockers, classrooms, dorms and a restaurant-quality kitchen. The team also built six prefabricated cottages on the site. Rockwood Lodge also included a sand beach, woods, tennis courts, a boat dock, a stocked fishing pond and a natural outdoor amphitheater used for team meetings.

Fleming says no report on the official cause of the fire has ever been uncovered; some think faulty wiring may have been to blame. The lodge was insured, and a Packers official at the time estimated initial losses to be at least $50,000, “which just so happened to be almost the exact amount of the Packers' debt,” writes Fleming. “The insurance money immediately brought the franchise back from the brink of bankruptcy and protected the Packers from being disbanded by the NFL.” Eight days after Rockwood Lodge burned, coach and co-founder Curly Lambeau announced his resignation from the Packers to become head coach of the Chicago Cardinals.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/96...-espn-magazine
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/96...od-lodge-blaze
http://espn.go.com/espn/photos/galle...rockwood-lodge
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9692535
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/209875401.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwood_Lodge



The 1947 Green Bay Packers at Rockwood Lodge. Photo by Green Bay Packers/Stiller-Lefebvre.




Rockwood Lodge from above, with a practice field toward the bottom and the bay of Green Bay at
top right. Photo by Green Bay Packers/Stiller-Lefebvre.





The Packers hosted the Chicago Cardinals in a scrimmage at Rockwood Lodge in the late 1940s,
as seen here. Photo from the Henry Lefebvre Collection of the Neville Public Museum of Brown County.





The ground outside Rockwood Lodge was hard on players – only a thin layer of soil covered limestone
underneath. Sometimes the Packers would bus into Green Bay to practice at their old practice field.
Press-Gazette photo.





Coach and Packers co-founder Curly Lambeau inside Rockwood Lodge with his wife at the time, Grace.
Press-Gazette photo.





Curly Lambeau’s vision of Rockwood Lodge was of players living and training there alongside their families.
Photo from the Henry Lefebvre Collection of the Neville Public Museum of Brown County.
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Last edited by Tower Park; December 23rd, 2013 at 06:02 AM. Reason: tweaked
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 11:05 PM   #11509
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Quote:
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OK, QUESTION FOR FORUM MEMBERS:

Who thinks we need another early morning ham 'n' egger place for breakfast in the immediate downtown? Al's Hamburger can be pretty busy in the morning and not have any seats when you go for breakfast. Do you think DT could support another breakfast & lunch diner serving bacon 'n' eggs all day along with some killer nom, nom, nom specialty sandwiches?
Great question. I don't know the market for downtown restaurants here, but that might be a good idea. "Traditional" downtown restaurants, like the old Terrace Room and River Room among others, are gone. I'll say yes.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 11:50 PM   #11510
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Great question. I don't know the market for downtown restaurants here, but that might be a good idea. "Traditional" downtown restaurants, like the old Terrace Room and River Room among others, are gone. I'll say yes.
. The Stein is gone too! Miss their champagne brunch.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 06:06 AM   #11511
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Another morning Diner

For another diner downtown, my thoughts are that the 5-7AM and 11Am-1-PM time slots are pretty busy at Blackstone and Al's. The early morning time seems to be where the greatest need is. On the East side the closest place is Blackstone on E. Mason, too far from DT.

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. The Stein is gone too! Miss their champagne brunch.
Everybody misses the Stein's Reuben sandwich and there isn't anyplace else that makes a true Reuben because face it, it's a lot of work to cook a brisket for hours and hours and it's messy in the kitchen. But I don'tlook at it that way, real cooking and not unpacking factory-made food and heating in the microwave is the way to go. That's why the hash at Al's is still popular and still on the menu.

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There's the Black Stone too. But yes, I think it would be good. White Dog has a great brunch but it's really busy on Sunday. Remember Uprisings? That place was good.
The Blackstone is busy early morning, I like that it's a quick in and out service, breakfast doesn't take much more than 15 minutes.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 08:52 PM   #11512
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OK, QUESTION FOR FORUM MEMBERS:

Who thinks we need another early morning ham 'n' egger place for breakfast in the immediate downtown? Al's Hamburger can be pretty busy in the morning and not have any seats when you go for breakfast. Do you think DT could support another breakfast & lunch diner serving bacon 'n' eggs all day along with some killer nom, nom, nom specialty sandwiches?
Breakfast is my favorite meal of the day, so I'm certainly in favor. I could see something popping up on Northern Washington, between Schrieber, CityDeck Landing, and the expanded KI, that's a lot of people. Also, I think you will see a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts in the area soon. There are some great coffee shops downtown but none would be recognizable to out of towners.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 03:37 AM   #11513
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Breakfast is my favorite meal of the day, so I'm certainly in favor. I could see something popping up on Northern Washington, between Schrieber, CityDeck Landing, and the expanded KI, that's a lot of people. Also, I think you will see a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts in the area soon. There are some great coffee shops downtown but none would be recognizable to out of towners.
If you're thinking of the ground floor in Watermark that space is really expensive and and I think inconvenient for the early morning diner on their way to work, unless they work at Schreiber HQ. That location also has no kitchen exhaust venting opportunity. A classic ham'n'egger joint basically needs 10-14 counter stools, a couple booths and a few tables that can be pushed together for groups and that's about it.

I've been going around for the past few months to all the local places Like Al's, Blackstone East & West , Skip's on Holmgren Way, Mill Town and Nicolet in De Pere and they all have a healthy early morning business. They all have groups of regulars that meet on certain days Traffic on Main and Monroe DT starts to pick up about 5:30 AM so I'm thinking that the Monroe and Main corridors are better suited.

I'm not going to respond to the Starbuck's comment other than say I hate their coffee along with all the other "coffee" place coffees. The national trend is moving towards Fair Trade beans being roasted in-house daily every morning and choosing specific bean types roasted while you wait if you're buying 3 lbs or more. There's a few inexpensive manual artisan-roasters on the market that are fueling this trend along with buying direct from independent growers around the world and cutting out the middleman. Starbuck's is waning and starting to close locations worldwide.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #11514
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If you're thinking of the ground floor in Watermark that space is really expensive and and I think inconvenient for the early morning diner on their way to work, unless they work at Schreiber HQ. That location also has no kitchen exhaust venting opportunity. A classic ham'n'egger joint basically needs 10-14 counter stools, a couple booths and a few tables that can be pushed together for groups and that's about it.

I've been going around for the past few months to all the local places Like Al's, Blackstone East & West , Skip's on Holmgren Way, Mill Town and Nicolet in De Pere and they all have a healthy early morning business. They all have groups of regulars that meet on certain days Traffic on Main and Monroe DT starts to pick up about 5:30 AM so I'm thinking that the Monroe and Main corridors are better suited.

I'm not going to respond to the Starbuck's comment other than say I hate their coffee along with all the other "coffee" place coffees. The national trend is moving towards Fair Trade beans being roasted in-house daily every morning and choosing specific bean types roasted while you wait if you're buying 3 lbs or more. There's a few inexpensive manual artisan-roasters on the market that are fueling this trend along with buying direct from independent growers around the world and cutting out the middleman. Starbuck's is waning and starting to close locations worldwide.
To clarify, I didn't have an specific location(s) in mind, just the general area. Development breeds development. IMO finding a tenent for the ground floor of Watermark will be a real challenge. Next to no visibility, and there are much more suitable locations for service based businesses, such as the Cherry ramp or soon the CityDeck Landing.

In regards to Starbucks, I'm not hoping for one, simply just believe that we will see one soon. I would prefer a Dunkin, whose already said that they will be opening shops in Green Bay in the coming years, and much prefer a Caribou Coffee which has slowly been inching it's way into Wisconsin from Minnesota.

Overall, with the new developments coming, we should expect some new restaurant offerings in the coming years.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #11515
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Quote:
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To clarify, I didn't have an specific location(s) in mind, just the general area. Development breeds development. IMO finding a tenent for the ground floor of Watermark will be a real challenge. Next to no visibility, and there are much more suitable locations for service based businesses, such as the Cherry ramp or soon the CityDeck Landing. In regards to Starbucks, I'm not hoping for one, simply just believe that we will see one soon. I would prefer a Dunkin, whose already said that they will be opening shops in Green Bay in the coming years, and much prefer a Caribou Coffee which has slowly been inching it's way into Wisconsin from Minnesota. Overall, with the new developments coming, we should expect some new restaurant offerings in the coming years.
Collectivo (formerly Alterra) has several Milwaukee locations and has now expanded into Madison. That would be a great addition. Fair trade, roasted in Milwaukee.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #11516
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Starbuck's is waning and starting to close locations worldwide.
Might want to check their financials a bit... I think they're just fine. Revenues are about 4x more today than they were 10 years ago, and stock is up over 700+% in the last five years. Wouldn't be surprised to see one downtown... (I don't really go there either, but clearly they're popular).

http://www.statisticbrain.com/starbu...ny-statistics/

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=S...rce=undefined;
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Old December 24th, 2013, 11:46 PM   #11517
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Not quite downtown but Our Place Family Restaurant on Broadway is quite yummy just not very fast.
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Old December 25th, 2013, 04:56 AM   #11518
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Not quite downtown but Our Place Family Restaurant on Broadway is quite yummy just not very fast.
every time i drive past that place i think it's closed (in the morning hours at least)
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Old December 25th, 2013, 05:35 AM   #11519
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Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks

I would hope for a Dunkin Donuts over a Starbucks just because DD's brand loyalists demographics are more representative of the Green Bay area. The DD experience is different from SB in that the people that stop at DD are generally middle-income, there for a cup of joe, sweet roll and read the morning paper before heading off to whatever their going to do. SB on the other hand is the higher-income or student that's going to hang around to use wi-fi for a couple hours.

The problem though with both of them is that they don't sell breakfast or lunch.
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Old December 25th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #11520
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I would hope for a Dunkin Donuts over a Starbucks just because DD's brand loyalists demographics are more representative of the Green Bay area. The DD experience is different from SB in that the people that stop at DD are generally middle-income, there for a cup of joe, sweet roll and read the morning paper before heading off to whatever their going to do. SB on the other hand is the higher-income or student that's going to hang around to use wi-fi for a couple hours.

The problem though with both of them is that they don't sell breakfast or lunch.
Actually, DD does does serve breakfast & lunch. And the coffee is much better than SB..
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