Merseytravel: The end of the unfair tunnel tax is near!

[Evertonian]

Merseytravel to be scrapped!!!

The monolithic unaccountable Merseytravel is to be replaced by ownership and managment by the local boroughs ending years of unelected people running our transport system.

Now, Wirral Borough Council....of whom most councillors are against the tunnel tolls will have a say and a vote on the running of the tunnels.

LCC which stands to finally be in a position to get rid of the tax to get in and out of it's city will also no doubt be delighted!

Trams also back on the agenda.

Great news!

[Paul D]

The tunnel tax is very unfair and I've got a feeling the trams are going to be very much back on the agenda soon.

[bluesnapper]

Tunnel tolls unfair?

Not half as unfair ar those who contribute to them via council taxes and don't even use the pipes!

[JUXTAPOL]

They will allways be Unfair in some way to someone if it involves paying for it.

Unfare to regular users, will be changed to
Unfare to people who never use them but pay via their council tax.

I would be happy to see the tolls go as an unregular user.

Anyway, what with the idea of paying for road use becoming an increasingly popular idea/reality, whose to say the tolls wont stay, and more added to local motorways, city centres, now that would be unfair...! wouldn't it.

[Evertonian]

Imagine how the Mancs would react to a toll to come into their city from the west.

They wouldn't have it. I can't wait to see Merseytravel go, 'cos theres broad political consensus that charging people to enter the city is harming Liverpool and Wirral business.

[Awayo]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

Imagine how the Mancs would react to a toll to come into their city from the west.

Congestion charging has been proposed for Manchester. By the Manchester councils no less.

We're more likely to see tolls for motorists entering the city from other directions than a removal of the tunnels tolls. Anyway, whether it's Merseytravel, a successor body in the Liverpool city region, a Northwest regional quangoloid or whatever, any change would need an act of parliament.

Claire Curtis Tansley Thomas Curtis would have to remember to turn up for it. Or, it its after the next election we might be relying on Debi Jones.

[Gareth]

Yep, we're jumping the gun here, I think. It would be great though and needs to happen.

[T0M]

The issue surely is not whether people are paying anything to use the tunnels, but whether they're paying more than the basic maintainance (which I assume they currently are). Seeing as how the entire toll system is in place already would it not make more sense for the council to simply reduce the toll to something that accurately reflects the actual costs of maintaining the tunnels, without making a profit on the motorists using them? That way everyone is happy(ish) people using the tunnels on a regular basis are happy because the fare goes down (hopefully substantially) and people who don't use the tunnels are happy because they aren't being asked to pay for their maintainance via council tax.

That way no one can complain - (he said, realising that is the most rediculous claim anyone is likely to make on this forum all week (John excluded)).

[Gareth]

I don't believe in tolls, though if we must have them, it should be just to cover maintenence costs and nothing more. Unfortunately, I think since the tunnel bill was passed, we've seen and will continue to see toll increases, above necessity. Of course, nothing's ever free and if we didn't toll tunnel users, we'd have to pay another way, probably through council tax, which I'd actually prefer.

Okay, it may actually be fairer on face value, only users pay but my dislike for the tolls is the fact they help foster the train of thought that Liverpool and Wirral are entirely separate worlds. The toll plaza gives out the impression of a customs area. It's quicker & easier to cross the French/Spanish border than the Wirral/Liverpool one. I know as I've done both on more than one occassion. Also, if we're to insist on promoting the whole area as one city, is it really fair to put a toll between one borough and it's downtown and not any of the others? I also believe the tolls are the difference for a lot of Wirral residents between going to downtown Liverpool and going to Chester or Cheshire Oaks for shopping & leisure, which doesn't exaclty boost the city's economy.

Liverpool City & The Wirral are the conurbation's two main boroughs. Good transport connections between the two are vital, which I don't think we have, thanks to the tolls and a not very integrated bus network. If we are to behave like a single city, it should be all for one and one for all, so we all pay through council tax, not something the likes of Sefton or St Helens would like, but if we had a metro government, it wouldn't be an issue.

[Toadboy]

If we had power over infrastructure and transport spending, maybe Sefton and St Helens would see major projects of their own - St Helens linked to Merseyrail electrics, Seaforth to the M57/M58 etc.

[Gareth]

Exactly. Stuff that won't be a priority when the Granadaland Passenger Transport Executive arrives.

[jets9]

Actually Tom, your post represents the closest the conurbation will get to removing tunnel tolls. A good approach/campaigning theme worth a spin. The underlying problem is that the establishment/road traffic/transport planning fascists (Are you listening Metrolink) are determined to put the population on an electronic leash,which means the whole plethora of satellite assesment/tracking/road tolling and ultimately higher taxes.

So you see, they will never allow the removal of any tolls, no matter how compelling the economic argument. Open free roads are anathma to them because they don't give them control and a handy stream of useful cash to fund their public transport soviet style fantasies.

So Tom, unless you were trying some develish irony, your post is in fact one of the most perceptive and intelligent of the week.

What we need is fresh statute law which prevents the new fascist establishment from planning/implementing any transport solution which has the effect(and of course, the intention) of blocking legal private journeys, damaging individual economic interests. While we are at it, all tolls should return to full deocratic control with a formal cap linked to inflation and no higher increases allowed except by popular local vote.

[Metrolink]

yes I'm listening, you're funny, very funny - keep up the good work.