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Old November 15th, 2006, 04:31 PM   #41
Zaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar View Post
Thanks for the info. This is recent. Though from reading the report, I don't see if there is a final approval for the project yet. I also see from reading the report that it is proposed as a BOT project. Any ideas of whether there will be a subsidy from the Government? I don't know of any major mass transit system in the world that can be built without explicit or implicit subsidies (the one profitable metro is the Hong Kong metro but it received indirect subsidies in the form of prime land that it earns money from).
Ya there is a more recent article on its approval but i cant find it. There will be limited subisdy from the government. The majority of the funding besides private investment will come from loans from the world bank and ADB. And since it will be completely privately run i am expecting it to have a good future because of bangladesh's unique system of privatized infrastructure. An example would be that the responsibility for taking care of Dhaka's infrastrucute was privatized a few years ago and since then there has been major beautification projects throughout the cityand the roads are in much better condition then when they were when it was public.
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Old November 15th, 2006, 06:23 PM   #42
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Actually, I found that subsequent to the news story you posted (which said that the proposal would go to PICOM), there is a news item suggesting that the process is starting all over again. I don't think this proposal from CONTECH has been accepted, as per this report (whic is the most recent one I could find).

http://www.bangladeshnews.com.bd/200...with-proposal/

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Asked what would be the fate of Contech which pre-qualified earlier, a high official of the Board of Investment (BoI) who was present in the meeting told The Daily Star that the company would remain as pre-qualified and it would also be able to participate in the international bidding. When asked how much time it would take to start physical construction, he said it is a mega project and the government does not want to hurry in implementing it.
Also, the CONTECH proposal does not seem like a credible one. It is proposing to build a 52km line for Tk 5200 crores, i.e. Tk 100 crore or ~14.5 million dollars per km. It is not possible to construct an underground line at that cost. The typical cost for the underground sections of Delhi Metro was about 60m dollars per km by comparison and it is considered a cost-effective metro (the cost was higher for the Shanghai and Beijing metros). An elevated line cost about $30m on average.

Furthermore, there is no mass transit project anywhere in the world that is sustainable purely on private investment, without substantial subsidy from the Government. Even the Hong Kong MTR had implicit subsidies in the form of prime land (it earns more from its real estate developments than from the metro itself). The level of subsidy required for this project in Dhaka depends on what kind of line it is. If it is an underground line, the subsidy can be as high as 50%. If it is an elevated line, the subsidy can be lower, but still about 25% of project cost. I don't see any reports of any subsidy from the Govt. of Bangladesh for the Dhaka metro. Is there any news report that talks about a subsidy?

Let's hope this latest proposal sees the light of day sooner rather than later. Dhaka would benefit immensely from a mass transit system (as would cities in India like Bangalore, Hyderabad and Ahmedabad, which are desperately in need of modern commuting options).

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The PICOM has also asked the communications ministry to conduct a feasibility study on constructing subway in Dhaka.

Last edited by Sridhar; November 15th, 2006 at 07:43 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2006, 06:43 PM   #43
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Kinshasa, DR Congo

7.5 million in the city, with no metro or commuter rail. It has a road/rail link to Matadi, on the Atlantic Ocean, but is barely connected with the rest of the country, which is large.

But, of course, with the situation, they have an excuse.
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Old November 16th, 2006, 01:08 AM   #44
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The Transmilenio was modelled on the system in Curitiba, Brazil, wasn't it? That system was 100 to 200 times cheaper to build than a metro covering the same distance, so I believe. Has Bogota had a similar experience cost-wise? Are there plans to expand the Transmilenio? I think it's a really good public transport solution for cities that can't afford a metro.
The Transmilenio has not stopped expanding, the last new lines were opened this year and new lines will be built starting next year. The idea is not to stop until the whole masterplan is finished by 2015 and by then none of the 8 or 9 million inhabitants of then will have a station further than 500 mts. away. The system today just 8 years after starting construction is already moving 1.4 million people a day and by the end it will have 388 kms of bus lines with a capacity of over 7 million people a day.
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Old November 16th, 2006, 08:48 AM   #45
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Johannesburg South Africa has a large population in the 5 million range without any major transit or metro

they are currently building the Gautrain http://www.gautrain.co.za/intro.php

which will link joburg and pretoria







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Most of the route in Johannesburg and its suburbs will be underground, moving from Park Station in the city centre under the Johannesburg Hospital in Parktown towards Rosebank and on to Sandton.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 09:42 AM   #46
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smallest with a subway in Europe
Rennes
206 229 inh
metroplitain area 550 000

and soon Lausanne 128,432
Greater Lausanne 250,000
Lausanne including suburbs has close to 320'000

But anyway - Allalin above Saas Fee is the probably the smallest place with a metro - Pop 0! Metro Alpin 3456 m above sea level!


It's in the Guiness Book of Records as the highest underground train in the world
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Old November 21st, 2006, 10:10 AM   #47
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The largest city that I know without a metro is Jakarta, Indonesia although they have ones of building a monorail.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 10:23 AM   #48
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San DIego has almost 4 milliones in the metro Area and we dont have metro.. ONLY Trolley system
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 03:20 PM   #49
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Mirandela in northern Portugal has a company called "Metro de mirandela" , it's a town of about 5.000 (?) people.

It's segregated rail , has a tunnel , runs entirely inside the town (4.1km) and has 4 (?) stations ... its a metre gauge diesel metro system.

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/pt/.../9500/pix.html
Metro de Mirandela are the green ones ... and yess .. .tecnivaly it's a metro system even on timetables.
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuesel View Post

But anyway - Allalin above Saas Fee is the probably the smallest place with a metro - Pop 0! Metro Alpin 3456 m above sea level!


It's in the Guiness Book of Records as the highest underground train in the world
It is not really a subway but a finicular.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 02:17 AM   #51
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It is not really a subway but a finicular.
Metro/Subway systems are not defined solely by what tipe of veicle they use but by the hole system ... as my previous post can prove.

Technicaly a subway is an urban mass transit system , nothing more , nothing less , some can add to it that it has to be underground but most metro systems nowadays run both under/on/above ground level.

As for the name subway ... in london it referes to the underground passages and not for the metro system (for example).
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:03 PM   #52
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I know, it was a joke

Anyway - it IS actually a mass transport vehicle, you don't want to know how many 10'000 skiers it has to transport every day (also in summer - it's a glacier ski area) And it is connected to other means of transport.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:18 PM   #53
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Yes, but it is not an urban transportation system. And the term 'metro' itself comes from 'metropolitan', which ultimately has been derived from Greek (meaning 'mother-town'). Anyway: a 'real' metro should at least run in a city. Otherwise, we could complement the list of worldwide metro systems with about any segregated mode of transportation. With all the funiculars, cable cars, cabin lifts etc. etc. worldwide, that'd become quite a list.

(one could technically call it 'segregated rail transport (SRT)'. The term 'metro' should be reserved solely to that type of SRT which runs in cities).
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:28 PM   #54
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Mumbai - 15 million
Karachi - 15 million
Lagos --12 million
Dhaka -7 million
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:54 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Metro/Subway systems are not defined solely by what tipe of veicle they use but by the hole system ... as my previous post can prove.

Technicaly a subway is an urban mass transit system , nothing more , nothing less , some can add to it that it has to be underground but most metro systems nowadays run both under/on/above ground level.

As for the name subway ... in london it referes to the underground passages and not for the metro system (for example).
Not true a subway in the UK is a pedestrian walkway under roads.

The Underground refers to what the rest of the world calls a subway or metro.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 06:18 AM   #56
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Metro Los Teques, Venezuela some estimates put it at 120,000 inhabitants. It was recently innagurated.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 12:52 PM   #57
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But this line is connected at Caracas subway.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 01:39 PM   #58
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JAKARTA, Indonesia, is the biggest city (9 mil in the city, 24 mil in the metro) in the world that DOESN'T have metro. but it has a commuter rail. it's an electric rail (6 lines). and jakarta has planned for 2 LRT/monorail and 1 mrt line. it has brt like bogota too. jakarta learnt from bogota about the brt. in jakarta it's called transjakarta (TJ). but people often call it busway. now government of jakarta is going to resume the making of monorail that had suspended. 2 lines of monorail will finish about 2007-2009. and the mrt will finish at 2008-2009. jakarta has 3 lines of brt. and the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th lines are under construction. it hopes can done in middle of 2007. and the construction of 8th-10th lines are on hold. jakarta has a plan that it will expand its brt until 15 lines in 2010.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 02:08 PM   #59
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Sorry - 24mio in metro Jakarta is a little tiny bit exaggorated
It's not really clear what is the actual pop but numbers differ between 12 and 17 mio afaik but that's still far from 24mio (only Tokyo has more, NY, MC and Seoul come close, Sao Paulo and Mumbai are below with around 20mio).
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Old November 25th, 2006, 02:54 PM   #60
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no, metro Jakarta, (jabotabek) is bigger than you thought. it's consist of jakarta, city of tangerang, city of bekasi, city of depok, and city of bogor. if you don't believe me, see wikipedia. search of Jabotabek. and the real city of jakarta is 9 mil. but they said that its 15 mil in the night, and 17 mil when it's day..
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