#PROJECT-Ras Al Khaimah: LA HOYA BAY RESIDENCE (Al Marjan Island)

[Morrismarina]

Originally Posted by danno

The apartment I mentioned was 860sqft @ 1350 dhs per sq ft

The others are all 750sq ft, but as I mentioned the apartments are narrow and poorly planned, although they are re-visiting the plans, apparently

Links are below:
http://www.7cinvest.com/pdf/aakarmar...idualplans.pdf

My original choice was a 1 bed in La hoya, sea view. With so many apartments and developments on the market, I am cautious as to the rentability of these and my rental returns.

Those designs really are rubbish, the worst I've ever seen.

The studios are simply hotel rooms, there's no kitchen facilities at all.

The one beds type A1 and A2 just have a sink and no real kitchen area. The A1 is just a big studio and as already mentioned the A2 doesn't have a door to the bedroom.

The two beds type A & B only have one bathroom to share between the two bedrooms - would also have expected in addition a Powder Room (1/2 bathroom) here, even most one beds have a bathroom and a powder room.

Very expensive IMO. Whilst serviced apartments look attractive initially, there is some downside. Not sure of the exact arrangements here but usually cannot be used for own use for anything more than one month a year, so cannot be used for an extended holiday and cannot live in it permanently yourself. Also you're tied in completely to the ability of the hotel to attract rental income for you. You've no control over the thing. If the rental returns are not good, the value of the unit will fall dramatically and could be difficult/impossible to sell on if this happens. Also of course cannot let out long term. It's horses for courses but, I prefer to steer well clear of serviced units.

Some interesting info on the c7invest website:

1. Unique design increasing occupancy in the hotel which will use the apartments as overspill

2. 24 hour concierge, parking to some units, 5* hotel services to the private apartments (So you could be paying 1350 dhs per sq ft
and have no parking ?? )

3. Maintenance charges between 30 to 40 Dhs per sq foot per annum


I'd have a good look again at LHB if I were you.

[lordlucan]

Hi guys I'm new to this thread but I'm a fan of LHB and have bought a 3 bed in Seagull block 3rd floor next to the canal and am looking at a couple of other 2beds from a friend struggling to make all their payments due to uk liquidity issues.

They seem to have good floor plans a pretty good strategy and having met Frank Khoie and the design team I think there is a fair chance they will build them properly.

I think that makes a difference to any residuals certainly in the short to medium term. There is a little bit of pride going on with them and that can only be good if they manage to keep it going.

[Yousuf27]

These are reassuring words Lord Lucan. I haven't met anyone from Khoie but I have a good feeling about LHB. I don't think any of the other Marjan Island releases so far can better it; - but that's arguable of course, and I'm happy to be proved wrong (not)!!

[Yousuf27]

Originally Posted by Morrismarina

Those designs really are rubbish, the worst I've ever seen.

The studios are simply hotel rooms, there's no kitchen facilities at all.

The one beds type A1 and A2 just have a sink and no real kitchen area. The A1 is just a big studio and as already mentioned the A2 doesn't have a door to the bedroom.

The two beds type A & B only have one bathroom to share between the two bedrooms - would also have expected in addition a Powder Room (1/2 bathroom) here, even most one beds have a bathroom and a powder room.

Very expensive IMO. Whilst serviced apartments look attractive initially, there is some downside. Not sure of the exact arrangements here but usually cannot be used for own use for anything more than one month a year, so cannot be used for an extended holiday and cannot live in it permanently yourself. Also you're tied in completely to the ability of the hotel to attract rental income for you. You've no control over the thing. If the rental returns are not good, the value of the unit will fall dramatically and could be difficult/impossible to sell on if this happens. Also of course cannot let out long term. It's horses for courses but, I prefer to steer well clear of serviced units.

Some interesting info on the c7invest website:

1. Unique design increasing occupancy in the hotel which will use the apartments as overspill

2. 24 hour concierge, parking to some units, 5* hotel services to the private apartments (So you could be paying 1350 dhs per sq ft
and have no parking ?? )

3. Maintenance charges between 30 to 40 Dhs per sq foot per annum


I'd have a good look again at LHB if I were you.

Danno - that's very expensive! My 1 bed at LHB is a lot cheaper per sq ft, I have guaranteed parking, and a much lower predicted service charge. Look at LHB - it's a better deal. Khoie's website says prices will rise 7% in March so have a look now.

[martinfields]

Some good points made here regarding some of the layouts. However this will be a 6 star development and every apartment will be fully equipped to a 6 star hotel specification from top to bottom including doors.

The apartments are freehold so you can do what you like with the property. They are not serviced, except for the fact you have access to 6 star facilities of the marriott hotel complex and spa. This is the reason for the service charge.

The price has already risen from 1050 Dirhams psf up to 1350 in a matter of months. Every 20 units sold causes a 10% increase in the price and i undertstand the development is over 60% sold out in 3 months. The prospect of potentially renting as a office is very attractive as they will pay a high rent and will the long term as opposed to the tourist sector. The more options the better from my point of view.

If some units are rented as offices this means less people at night but this could happen to any development in any apartment block. i bought a couple of the top floor apartments between 1050-1150 dirhams psf before the development became 6 star marriott so i agree that if i saw these apartments at 1350 today i might think they are a little expensive at this stage but closer to the development completes the rental yield will be far higher than other developments not tied to household name both in the tourist and office rental market. given the choice i suspect most people will choose a 6 star development with all the trimmings over other developments that does not have this catering. I am keeping an eye on other developments and it is great to get peoples opinions as you have to see all the bad points in all shades so that you do not look at developments through rose tinted glasses. depending on the psf of LHB and the rate these units are selling might make these units attractive but imho the location and large scale of the development is a negative, although if you were early and snapped up a top floor or high level with good views you will have done well.

[lordlucan]

Just to give you an idea on value guys I paid 675 dirhams a square foot for my 3 bed in LHB admittedly at first release and it is 2750 sq ft with terraces so I'd be quite happy to get 1350 mariott dirhams now! The two beds I,m looking at are 1800 sq ft and if they come off they might be at a cost of 800 ish.

I dont disagree that you might still make money from a hotel sponsored development, but I think you are more likely to get a defined income stream in the short to medium term rather than a large chunk of equity. However that can be good particularly if you buy things with a view to getting a bit of income from one thing and equity from another with a good balance.

[Morrismarina]

Originally Posted by martinfields

Some good points made here regarding some of the layouts. However this will be a 6 star development and every apartment will be fully equipped to a 6 star hotel specification from top to bottom including doors.

The apartments are freehold so you can do what you like with the property. They are not serviced, except for the fact you have access to 6 star facilities of the marriott hotel complex and spa. This is the reason for the service charge.

The price has already risen from 1050 Dirhams psf up to 1350 in a matter of months. Every 20 units sold causes a 10% increase in the price and i undertstand the development is over 60% sold out in 3 months. The prospect of potentially renting as a office is very attractive as they will pay a high rent and will the long term as opposed to the tourist sector. The more options the better from my point of view.

If some units are rented as offices this means less people at night but this could happen to any development in any apartment block. i bought a couple of the top floor apartments between 1050-1150 dirhams psf before the development became 6 star marriott so i agree that if i saw these apartments at 1350 today i might think they are a little expensive at this stage but closer to the development completes the rental yield will be far higher than other developments not tied to household name both in the tourist and office rental market. given the choice i suspect most people will choose a 6 star development with all the trimmings over other developments that does not have this catering. I am keeping an eye on other developments and it is great to get peoples opinions as you have to see all the bad points in all shades so that you do not look at developments through rose tinted glasses. depending on the psf of LHB and the rate these units are selling might make these units attractive but imho the location and large scale of the development is a negative, although if you were early and snapped up a top floor or high level with good views you will have done well.

There's nothing stated as to what the 6 Star hotel specification is here, how can the doors be of that much better quality. Surely a door is a door at the end of the day.........and the price of a top-end door against a good quality one will not vary that much, well certainly not enough to push the price up this amount. I'd like to see a full list of the extra specifications before paying these prices.

I just get a gut feeling that the whole development is somewhat "odd" to be honest. Residential rooms with ridiculously designed floorplans that can also be used as office space ? Can't see many businesses wanting to rent such small spaces. Why would a business want to rent out a two bedroom apartment. Why would a business want a tiny office next to a 6 Star hotel. Ok so they could lease several rooms to accomodate a larger number of workers, but would I want to buy an apartment next to such units, no way, workers walking up and down from room to room with their laptops and paperwork, on the phone all day, hardly the perfect setting for holiday makers or long term residents.

And the finance, well here's the deal:

Reservation fee 10% of purchase price PLUS administration fee of £495 / $995 / €750 / 3,750Dhs

10% of purchase price payable with contract 28 days after contract receipt (approx 30-45 days from reservation)

[Once the contract has been signed and the 10% reservation and 10% deposit has been paid and the investor has reached a certain stage payment, the investor is free to resell the unit NO HIGHER than the current marketing price of the development] - Seven Continent Investment will handle resales for the client should they require for a fixed fee.

Further 10% stage payments are due every 3 months.

Therefore:

Day 1: administration fee as above plus / 10% reservation fee
Day 30-45 (month 1): 10% (due 30 working days from receipt of contract)
Month 4: 10%
Month 7: 10%
Month 10: 10%
Month 13: 10%
Month 16: 10%
Month 19: 10%
Month 22: 10%
Completion: 10%

So you have to pay a massive 10% "reservation fee" that's hell of a lot before you've even received the contract. I suspect if you don't like the contract and back out you lose you 10% fee ?? Not so bad on a studio but on a two bed unit you could lose a lot of money here. I'd insist on seeing the contract first before parting with such a large sum. And also an adminsitration fee on top, haven't ever seen this rip-off charge before

At exactly what "certain stage" can the investor sell their unit ?? Why are they not stating it clearly here. .......obviously don't want you to know until you've paid their reservataion fee and admin charge. Also why can't you sell whenever you like and for whatever price you want ??

The payments are the usual 10% every three months even though developer is not comimtted to actually having built anything at these stages. Compare with LHB where you keep your 70% and only hand it over after snagging and completion, which is much safer and less expensive. You have to build the finance of these quarterly payments into the final cost of your Aakar apartment, so true price is much more than 1,350 sq ft !!!

Is there any developers finance here ?? If the developer has good financial standing they will arrange for a long term payment plan, say over 10 to 15 years, not just cash payments from you. Also if there is a mortgage facility provided by a bank it also shows the developer has good a financial footing as the bank have sufficient confidence in them to lend their money on a piece of sand, in the knowledge that the project will actually get built. This provides much more comfort for a purchaser. Does a long term payment plan or mortgage facilites apply here ?? Or do you have to pay cash up to 90% of the price, with nothing linked to construction stages ??

To be fair Khoie don't provide a long term plan or mortgage facilities either whilst LHB is under construction, but the difference is, other than the 30% you pay upfront, they have the funds available to finance the rest of the build themselves.

Please don't think I'm trying to run down this development I'm simply pointing out things I personally would consider before looking at this one on the basis it may help others.

[lordlucan]

Originally Posted by Morrismarina

There's nothing stated as to what the 6 Star hotel specification is here, how can the doors be of that much better quality. Surely a door is a door at the end of the day.........and the price of a top-end door against a good quality one will not vary that much, well certainly not enough to push the price up this amount. I'd like to see a full list of the extra specifications before paying these prices.

I just get a gut feeling that the whole development is somewhat "odd" to be honest. Residential rooms with ridiculously designed floorplans that can also be used as office space ? Can't see many businesses wanting to rent such small spaces. Why would a business want to rent out a two bedroom apartment. Why would a business want a tiny office next to a 6 Star hotel. Ok so they could lease several rooms to accomodate a larger number of workers, but would I want to buy an apartment next to such units, no way, workers walking up and down from room to room with their laptops and paperwork, on the phone all day, hardly the perfect setting for holiday makers or long term residents.

And the finance, well here's the deal:

Reservation fee 10% of purchase price PLUS administration fee of £495 / $995 / €750 / 3,750Dhs

10% of purchase price payable with contract 28 days after contract receipt (approx 30-45 days from reservation)

[Once the contract has been signed and the 10% reservation and 10% deposit has been paid and the investor has reached a certain stage payment, the investor is free to resell the unit NO HIGHER than the current marketing price of the development] - Seven Continent Investment will handle resales for the client should they require for a fixed fee.

Further 10% stage payments are due every 3 months.

Therefore:

Day 1: administration fee as above plus / 10% reservation fee
Day 30-45 (month 1): 10% (due 30 working days from receipt of contract)
Month 4: 10%
Month 7: 10%
Month 10: 10%
Month 13: 10%
Month 16: 10%
Month 19: 10%
Month 22: 10%
Completion: 10%

So you have to pay a massive 10% "reservation fee" that's hell of a lot before you've even received the contract. I suspect if you don't like the contract and back out you lose you 10% fee ?? Not so bad on a studio but on a two bed unit you could lose a lot of money here. I'd insist on seeing the contract first before parting with such a large sum. And also an adminsitration fee on top, haven't ever seen this rip-off charge before

At exactly what "certain stage" can the investor sell their unit ?? Why are they not stating it clearly here. .......obviously don't want you to know until you've paid their reservataion fee and admin charge. Also why can't you sell whenever you like and for whatever price you want ??

The payments are the usual 10% every three months even though developer is not comimtted to actually having built anything at these stages. Compare with LHB where you keep your 70% and only hand it over after snagging and completion, which is much safer and less expensive. You have to build the finance of these quarterly payments into the final cost of your Aakar apartment, so true price is much more than 1,350 sq ft !!!

Is there any developers finance here ?? If the developer has good financial standing they will arrange for a long term payment plan, say over 10 to 15 years, not just cash payments from you. Also if there is a mortgage facility provided by a bank it also shows the developer has good a financial footing as the bank have sufficient confidence in them to lend their money on a piece of sand, in the knowledge that the project will actually get built. This provides much more comfort for a purchaser. Does a long term payment plan or mortgage facilites apply here ?? Or do you have to pay cash up to 90% of the price, with nothing linked to construction stages ??

To be fair Khoie don't provide a long term plan or mortgage facilities either whilst LHB is under construction, but the difference is, other than the 30% you pay upfront, they have the funds available to finance the rest of the build themselves.

Please don't think I'm trying to run down this development I'm simply pointing out things I personally would consider before looking at this one on the basis it may help others.

I agree with this in terms of the risk/reward potential on the amount of capital you could potentially tie up with little sight of a return. Anyone with 90% value tied up and a late buildout will be more than a little stressed at some point down the line. However fortune favours the brave as they say, maybe I'm just not brave enough!

[Morrismarina]

Just noticed there is thread already for Aakar.........so any further discussions can take place there as this thread is for LHB.

[rags]

Originally Posted by lordlucan

Just to give you an idea on value guys I paid 675 dirhams a square foot for my 3 bed in LHB admittedly at first release and it is 2750 sq ft with terraces so I'd be quite happy to get 1350 mariott dirhams now! The two beds I,m looking at are 1800 sq ft and if they come off they might be at a cost of 800 ish.

I dont disagree that you might still make money from a hotel sponsored development, but I think you are more likely to get a defined income stream in the short to medium term rather than a large chunk of equity. However that can be good particularly if you buy things with a view to getting a bit of income from one thing and equity from another with a good balance.

Lord Lucan, Do you know what the current price at LHB is and whether it is easy to sell an apt one may have bought? What is the update on construction? You really seem to have bought it quite cheap.

[lordlucan]

Hi Rags

Maybe a little bit clouded this one but here goes. My original cost to the 3 bed was 1.837m dirhams and the built area of the flat excluding terrace is 202m2 about 2160 sq ft. with terraces is approx 2750 sq ft and is the first block (Seagull) next to the canal. Now Khoies on the third block down split some of the 3 beds into 2 2 beds and didnt include the terracing on their pricing structure. This I have been assured was a mistake on their part and they had intended to to include that area and I know of someone who bought 6No. at the so called reduced rate. So I guess the cost per sq ft thing can be taken two ways but I think the terracing is integral to your useable space and an asset to the interior space and obviously has a cost to build so I guess if I was the developer I would charge for it. It certainly looks as though other developers on the island would pursue that line.

I'm not 100% but I think that the cost to mine now given the type and position would be 2.3m maybe, I will see if some more info is available. I have been told that that some interested parties have enquired after that type of property recently with a view to trying to find re-sellers, but I tend to take that with a pinch of salt.

So I guess the original value could be from 670-850 dependant on how you value terraces, and top out at 1075 if you exclude them.

I just think thats still quite good value given the payment scheme and location and the background information on other developments supplied by Morrismarina etc. and there are no real bad points to consider.

[Yousuf27]

Might sound a silly question but has everyone who's bought here checked out the parking situation? When I bought I was told that the price of the apartment as stated in the sales material did not include a parking space. Parking was extra.

[Dubai_Steve]

Surely at 1350 sq ft this is overpriced. You can buy on the Palm Jumeirah for that price !

[Yousuf27]

It is to much. The pricing I saw was 1150 - 1200 depending on type/size.

[beer51]

Far as i am aware parking for LHB is extra approx 60K AED.

[Yousuf27]

Originally Posted by beer51

Far as i am aware parking for LHB is extra approx 60K AED.

......I just didn't want anyone to fall into the trap of thinking they would automatically get a parking space - as is the case in most other developments I believe - and then to find later that this isn't actually the case. It would make a big difference to letting potential - holidays or long term - if you didn't have the parking on offer.

[rags]

Originally Posted by lordlucan

Hi Rags

Maybe a little bit clouded this one but here goes. My original cost to the 3 bed was 1.837m dirhams and the built area of the flat excluding terrace is 202m2 about 2160 sq ft. with terraces is approx 2750 sq ft and is the first block (Seagull) next to the canal. Now Khoies on the third block down split some of the 3 beds into 2 2 beds and didnt include the terracing on their pricing structure. This I have been assured was a mistake on their part and they had intended to to include that area and I know of someone who bought 6No. at the so called reduced rate. So I guess the cost per sq ft thing can be taken two ways but I think the terracing is integral to your useable space and an asset to the interior space and obviously has a cost to build so I guess if I was the developer I would charge for it. It certainly looks as though other developers on the island would pursue that line.

I'm not 100% but I think that the cost to mine now given the type and position would be 2.3m maybe, I will see if some more info is available. I have been told that that some interested parties have enquired after that type of property recently with a view to trying to find re-sellers, but I tend to take that with a pinch of salt.

So I guess the original value could be from 670-850 dependant on how you value terraces, and top out at 1075 if you exclude them.

I just think thats still quite good value given the payment scheme and location and the background information on other developments supplied by Morrismarina etc. and there are no real bad points to consider.

Thanks, Lordlucan. You have mentioned where the construction is at this time. Have they progressed enough? Also, is the re-sale easy or difficult? In other words, can one achieve a re-sale in, say, about 6 to 8 weeks' time?

[ANavarre]

Hi all, I've just joined this site after reading through the many posts regarding the projects in RAK. I work for a property developer in Bahrain, and if anyone is interest in property investment in Bahrain, feel free to contact me. We have 2 projects due to start construction next month and there are a few remaining apartments. We also are have plans for a new project on Al Marjan Island although the details are still be finalised, but if there's any interest out there let me know and I can send the details to you.

[soennecken]

"Far as i am aware parking for LHB is extra approx 60K AED."

My contract (signed in 2006) states one parking space included in the price. I have not heard about a charge for a parking space at LHB and as far as I am aware there is non.
Soen

[danno]

2006!!! Looks like I missed some serious growth potential there.
Out of interest, what per centage growth have you realised since that time?