Fare Cards Will Remove Payment Gridlock-Toronto Star

[CrazyCanuck]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=969483202845

Fare cards will remove payment gridlock
New transit fare card readers will move riders and traffic along
Nov. 13, 2006. 06:33 AM
DAVID BRUSER

One-third of a second.

That's the estimated time new transit fare card readers will need to process the transaction when you pay to ride.

We know the region-wide fare card is coming, and that Accenture will get $250 million to design and put it in place. But provincial Transportation Minister Donna Cansfield talked with the Toronto Star to give readers of this column a better idea of how it will actually work for riders, transit agencies and possibly in the retail sector.

The prospect of time saved should appeal not only to mass transit riders but also to those who drive their cars to work in the morning.

If you've ever idled on Queen St. E., waiting in the right-hand lane as a slow line of riders boards a streetcar in the left lane, you think for a fleeting moment about gunning the engine to make them all scurry aboard.

Or try remaining calm standing in an excruciatingly torpid line at the Union Station farebox, as someone at the front peers into the depths of her purse for exact change.

"When people talk about the gridlock on the roads, they forget about the gridlock on transit, moving in and out of stations. You're standing at the corner, people are fumbling for change, they can't get a ticket," Cansfield said. "It's a huge timesaver. It's one of the big pluses of the fare card system."

Under the provincially created Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, the fare card will debut on four Mississauga bus routes, two stations on the GO Transit Milton line and Union Station by the middle of next year. But not until 2008, when the system expands to Burlington and Oakville, will commuters enjoy the full technological capability of the network. By 2010, the system will allow travel from Hamilton to Oshawa using a single card. This is, of course, assuming the hesitant, cash-strapped TTC decides to get fully on board the project.

While kiosks in transit stations and elsewhere will allow you to top up the dollar value on the card, Rob Hollis, director of the system, said at a transit conference last week that there will be another way to fill what he calls the "e-purse."

Through a call centre or online, commuters will be able to set up an account and allow automatic withdrawals of a pre-set amount from a debit or credit card whenever the value falls below $10 or $20 or whatever the rider chooses.

"You never have to worry about having the proper amount," Hollis said. "Just travel and forget."

The card will also know where the commuter transfers and automatically adjusts fares depending on which system he or she transfers to. Transit agencies will be able to use that data to quickly track where riders are going and which stations are the busiest, and adjust service levels accordingly, Cansfield said.

The card — expected to be the same size or smaller than a credit card — will get you on the subway, bus or train. But what if you're feeling peckish while walking through Union Station? Maybe sometime in the not-so-distant future you could use the fare card to buy a coffee and muffin. "You could use it (when) you get your Tim Hortons," Cansfield speculated.

And when you drive to the library to pay a late fee, why not use that same card to pay for your parking spot, then hand it over as both identification and payment at the library?

"We actually secured the rights for software services for the entire province of Ontario," Hollis said. "So if the municipalities want to partake in this particular infrastructure, they can develop to other areas. We're looking forward to working with other markets."

The new fare card could be the thin edge of a multipurpose one-card future.

"Hong Kong is the poster child for this," Hollis added. "They have micro-payments in retail stores. They have parking. They use it as an identity card."

The ministry of transportation is exploring those options, though Cansfield says the priority is to make sure the transit application works the way it should before considering how the card could interface elsewhere.

The GTTA will have to brand the card that will probably feature a logo, Cansfield said.

Any ideas on what it should be called? And please, for the sake of all guys out there, don't suggest e-purse.

[Taller, Better]

Excellent news!!

[p5archit]

Man, how long did it take them to figure this out- I mean, this system has been around for a while now and only now are they really getting with it..The fact that the TTC still hasn't decided to get on board, shows that there is little leadership or thought about future investments...

The same reason why we are about to invest close $800 million in new trains, although we don't even need them..I honestly do not understand the logic- everyone screams bloody murder about transit expansion and the GTA's needs not being met, but we are just as willing to spend close to a billion dollars on new trains....!!!

p5

[rbt]

The same reason why we are about to invest close $800 million in new trains, although we don't even need them.

I would edit that out of your message if I were you. Makes you look a little bit out of touch with reality.

What exactly is your alternative to purchasing replacement trains for the ones that are going to be EOL'd due to fatigue in the frames?

[doady]

The GTA Farecard is a great idea, too bad the TTC won't participate. Yet another example of the TTC is holding transit in the GTA back.

Originally Posted by p5archit

The same reason why we are about to invest close $800 million in new trains, although we don't even need them..I honestly do not understand the logic- everyone screams bloody murder about transit expansion and the GTA's needs not being met, but we are just as willing to spend close to a billion dollars on new trains....!!!

p5

Trains are needed to carry riders in the subway, it's as simple as that.

[thryve]

yay.

[Breakwood]

So would this fare card be similar to what they have in New York City? If so, then this is great news.

[KGB]

The GTA Farecard is a great idea, too bad the TTC won't participate. Yet another example of the TTC is holding transit in the GTA back.

Well, I don't think it's a case of thinking it's a bad idea...it's a case of priorities with limited funds. They will get to it when it is money best spent...and at the moment, it isn't.

As for the TTC holding transit back in the GTA...is that some kind of joke???? If the 905 didn't build itself so non transit friendly all these decades, we wouldn't be in this mess. Please....the TTC IS public transit in the GTA....PERIOD.






KGB

[Epi]

This is great news! I hope one day it gets to be like the Hong Kong Octopus card... that thing is amazing. I hope they don't get stupid and make swipy cards too. The Octopus card just scans in the air (even through your wallet).

[doady]

Originally Posted by KGB

Well, I don't think it's a case of thinking it's a bad idea...it's a case of priorities with limited funds. They will get to it when it is money best spent...and at the moment, it isn't.

As for the TTC holding transit back in the GTA...is that some kind of joke???? If the 905 didn't build itself so non transit friendly all these decades, we wouldn't be in this mess. Please....the TTC IS public transit in the GTA....PERIOD.






KGB

Transit in the 905 is dependent on the TTC, it's as simple as that. If improvements to the TTC stagnates, then it hurts transit in the 905 a lot. And despite this there is no denying that transit in the 905 is improving at a much faster pace than in Toronto

The fact is, the TTC is being held back more by poor management than by lack of funding. For example, thanks to the province, the city of Toronto only fund around $20 million for transit operating costs this year, while Mississauga and York Region each subsidized over $40 million for their transit operations. Not only that, but the TTC raised fares the most of all the systems this year. Something is not right here.

As for the farecard, the problem with it is not the capital costs, since the Province will pay most of it, but in the extra costs of maintaining the system which the Province would not subsidize. But the province does subsidize the TTC's operations and only the the TTC's operations, so the TTC should not be the one complaing about higher operating costs.

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by doady

The fact is, the TTC is being held back more by poor management than by lack of funding. For example, thanks to the province, the city of Toronto only fund around $20 million for transit operating costs this year, while Mississauga and York Region each subsidized over $40 million for their transit operations. Not only that, but the TTC raised fares the most of all the systems this year. Something is not right here.

As for the farecard, the problem with it is not the capital costs, since the Province will pay most of it, but in the extra costs of maintaining the system which the Province would not subsidize. But the province does subsidize the TTC's operations and only the the TTC's operations, so the TTC should not be the one complaing about higher operating costs.

Management on the TTC is actually pretty damn good. What holds the TTC back the most is politics. Those subsidies are politics, not management issues. The subsidy that the province gives isn't what it used to be, as everyone knows. Remember that the TTC looks after 80% or so of its operating costs by itself (in North America's public transit universe, that's almost unheard of these days, although GO Transit pulls a similar feat, that just means that Toronto is the proud focal point of two exceptions), because the governments above city hall don't consider the TTC as necessary, rather, they consider looking after the TTC a threat to their re-election.

[kelw]

Originally Posted by Epi

This is great news! I hope one day it gets to be like the Hong Kong Octopus card... that thing is amazing. I hope they don't get stupid and make swipy cards too. The Octopus card just scans in the air (even through your wallet).

From the article, it sounds like they are considering the Octopus-type card. It mentions that the technology only requires one-third of a second, which doesn't sound like the swipy kind. Good news.

Originally Posted by TRZ

Management on the TTC is actually pretty damn good. What holds the TTC back the most is politics. Those subsidies are politics, not management issues. The subsidy that the province gives isn't what it used to be, as everyone knows. Remember that the TTC looks after 80% or so of its operating costs by itself (in North America's public transit universe, that's almost unheard of these days, although GO Transit pulls a similar feat, that just means that Toronto is the proud focal point of two exceptions), because the governments above city hall don't consider the TTC as necessary, rather, they consider looking after the TTC a threat to their re-election.

Just want to add that politicians at the local level like Howard Moscoe also deserve part of the blame for interfering with management. That Bombardier contract is pure politics and hardly the best way to spend limited funds.

[KGB]

Transit in the 905 is dependent on the TTC, it's as simple as that. If improvements to the TTC stagnates, then it hurts transit in the 905 a lot.

Toronto always has had a very extensive transit system...long before the 905 existed, during its development, and now. Let's face it, it was the 905 that ignored transit for so long, and now it's paying the price. Blaming the TTC for being by far the best transit system on the continent is the worse excuse I've ever heard. You couldn't ask for a better transit influence to have next door.

And despite this there is no denying that transit in the 905 is improving at a much faster pace than in Toronto

HA...right. The TTC has added more ridership in the last few years than the total ridership of the 905 combined. It also can't match capital expenditures either. Besides, when you have practically nothing to begin with, "improving" is all you can do....the TTC has been very extensive for a very long time.

The fact is, the TTC is being held back more by poor management than by lack of funding.

I wish you wouldn't preface your statements with things like "the FACT is", because that is NOT a fact. Want to hear a real fact?...the TTC is by FAR the best managed transit system on the continent. The TTC is one very savy transit operator...they run a very tight ship.

Not only that, but the TTC raised fares the most of all the systems this year. Something is not right here.

That certainly doesn't help your arguement. The 905 doesn't raise fares???? Fares are merely a matter of how much you want the user to pay and how much you want the city taxpayers to pay. Fares in the 905 are similar, but you get a hell of lot more for your fare in Toronto than you do in the 905, and the taxpayer is left with a smaller bill.

Listening to 905'ers blame the TTC of all things for their transit woes makes my blood boil. It just solidifies my distaste for what makes suburbia so nasty.




KGB

[p5archit]

Why should i edit such comments out of my post, and why does this make me out of touch with reality?? I have no problem with the present subways, the older and/or newer models and they run fine and I am sure they will do so for quite some time. I never said it isn't smart to eventually invest in new trains, but considering we are consistently talking about subway expansion, well here is $800 million which we can use to expand now..

Or for that matter, how about using some of that money to make the system better: by investing in new digital station displays which tell you when the next train is coming, the same for buses and streetcars- or fixing the subway stations which are leaking and have massive water damage and are basically rusting away, and why not improve accessibility in the stations, and expand union and yonge/bloor stations finally- allowing for better passenger flow- especially during rush hour. The system in my opinion is in far more need of money than the trains, which all honesty are in more or less fine condition..

I think these things show that I am pretty much in touch with reality...

pfive-

[Epi]

Dude... trains much like everything else like stations and so on have definate lifetimes. The older they get, the more it costs to maintain and repair, the less available parts are and eventually they just need to be replaced. It's getting time now for a lot of the subway trains in Toronto. It's not like they're replacing all of them, but this is one capital expenditure that's wholly necessary.

[Tuscani01]

Originally Posted by p5archit

Why should i edit such comments out of my post, and why does this make me out of touch with reality?? I have no problem with the present subways, the older and/or newer models and they run fine and I am sure they will do so for quite some time. I never said it isn't smart to eventually invest in new trains, but considering we are consistently talking about subway expansion, well here is $800 million which we can use to expand now..

Or for that matter, how about using some of that money to make the system better: by investing in new digital station displays which tell you when the next train is coming, the same for buses and streetcars- or fixing the subway stations which are leaking and have massive water damage and are basically rusting away, and why not improve accessibility in the stations, and expand union and yonge/bloor stations finally- allowing for better passenger flow- especially during rush hour. The system in my opinion is in far more need of money than the trains, which all honesty are in more or less fine condition..

I think these things show that I am pretty much in touch with reality...

pfive-

I guess you dont really follow or take the TTC that often. The trains on the Bloor line are old. They smell and the seats are crap. Some even have the seats from the newer trains installed in them. It looks like the trains were pulled from a scrap yard. Even some running on the Yonge-University line should be replaced. The new trains that were ordered are only going to replace the trains that need to be replaced.

As for the digital station displays, they are already planning on doing that on bus and streetcar stations, and automated stop announcer will soon be installed and accessibility is being improved in all stations.

[CrazyCanuck]

Originally Posted by p5archit

Why should i edit such comments out of my post, and why does this make me out of touch with reality?? I have no problem with the present subways, the older and/or newer models and they run fine and I am sure they will do so for quite some time. I never said it isn't smart to eventually invest in new trains, but considering we are consistently talking about subway expansion, well here is $800 million which we can use to expand now..

Or for that matter, how about using some of that money to make the system better: by investing in new digital station displays which tell you when the next train is coming, the same for buses and streetcars- or fixing the subway stations which are leaking and have massive water damage and are basically rusting away, and why not improve accessibility in the stations, and expand union and yonge/bloor stations finally- allowing for better passenger flow- especially during rush hour. The system in my opinion is in far more need of money than the trains, which all honesty are in more or less fine condition..

I think these things show that I am pretty much in touch with reality...

pfive-

Actually you aren't.

Why would they need a digital readout of when the next subway is coming when the train frequency is almost always under 5 minutes? Now that would be a waste of money. Also, Union is getting completely redone as we speak, so I have no clue what you are talking about with that point.

They need to replace the trains BEFORE they start breaking down, if you wait until then, it's already too late.

[Jaye101]

Does anyone notice that the window in the back of some new buses are broken and cannot close? It gets friggin cold.

[rbt]

I have no problem with the present subways, the older and/or newer models and they run fine and I am sure they will do so for quite some time.

That's why. It's quite obvious you are not very familiar with TTC operations.

Everything older than the T1's (H4's through H6's) are approaching the end of their lifespan for the frame. Metal fatigue wears the joints and welds eventually you need to replace those parts. Rebuilding the motors, seats, etc. is pretty easy but replacing the frame is a bitch.

They simply aren't very safe and already have a very high failure rate compared to the T1's or new trains which do cause service problems today.

I think these things show that I am pretty much in touch with reality...

That's nice, I'm glad you believe that. I agree with the tunnels. The State of Good Repair is and should be a high priority. Rolling stock is included in that.

[DonQui]

Wait, are you guys still using tokens?