daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 14th, 2016, 04:13 PM   #2101
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,557

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquamaroon View Post
a seismic disrupter
Perhaps not the best choice of words to refer to something in LA!

While getting light rail to the Sea (well, that part of the coast) will make things better wrt ridership, I'd argue that the Regional Connector will be the thing that provides the step change needed. Rather than Light Rail ending (or heading back away from Downtown) at the edge of Downtown it will distribute traffic in, and take traffic through downtown to other centres - total game changer.
__________________

aquamaroon, fskobic liked this post
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 14th, 2016, 10:24 PM   #2102
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,599
Likes (Received): 5962

I am not an expert but I would expect so as well. The regional connector looks like a game changer to me as well and is probably worth the high costs.

That said, the west of LA seems to be ridiculously underserved or even unserved by mass transit. I do understand the reasons for it but this needs to change and the light rail to the sea is one step to do something about it. The extension of the subway at least to Rodeo Drive is another thing but is going to take ages ...
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK

aquamaroon liked this post
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 12:42 AM   #2103
aquamaroon
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: City of Stars
Posts: 2,027
Likes (Received): 3235

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Perhaps not the best choice of words to refer to something in LA!

While getting light rail to the Sea (well, that part of the coast) will make things better wrt ridership, I'd argue that the Regional Connector will be the thing that provides the step change needed. Rather than Light Rail ending (or heading back away from Downtown) at the edge of Downtown it will distribute traffic in, and take traffic through downtown to other centres - total game changer.
Haha, agree with both of your points, especially the first . And I think you're right, providing the heart of downtown with a true, comprehensive rail solution will be the thing that most accelerates ridership as a whole.
I know it's somewhat frowned upon here, but I feel that the much maligned downtown streetcar will be a critical support for downtown rail. Once that's in place, a rider like me could go from the westside to pretty much everywhere I'd want to go in downtown with just my tap card
aquamaroon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 12:57 AM   #2104
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,599
Likes (Received): 5962

That makes me wonder: Did the authorities ever create a truly integrated fare system for the entire metropolitan region? In my memories the system looked rather complicated to me with tons of different companies operating, different fares, extra transfer conditions or additional fees etc. Is this still the case, or did I merely not get it when I was there a while ago?

Can you handle all the public transport services with tapping by card while entering vehicles or are things more complicated? Maybe it is just me, but I think complex fare systems, limited coverage, a mix of operators that make a difference regarding fares etc are keeping a lot of people away from PT in general.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK

fskobic liked this post

Last edited by Slartibartfas; April 15th, 2016 at 01:02 AM.
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 01:07 AM   #2105
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 6077

A regional transport agency would make sense (so a great expansion of LA Metro). But who needs sense anyway. There's too many cities in the conjoined urban area who all want their say in things.
__________________

fskobic, Swede, aquaticko liked this post
MrAronymous no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 01:38 AM   #2106
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5756

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Can you handle all the public transport services with tapping by card while entering vehicles or are things more complicated?
Most of the bus agencies use the Tap card, but interagency transfers are a byzantine ritual. Basically, you need to ask the bus driver to load an interagency transfer onto your card. Frankly, I don't understand why this extra step is necessary. A better approach would be for the transfer to be activated when you board the connecting bus.

Source: go here: https://www.taptogo.net/TAPFAQ, then click on "How do I transfer from a Metro bus to another municipal line?"

List of participating agencies:

https://www.taptogo.net/articles/en_.../where-to-ride

What's more, the bus agencies hate each other. For example, for reasons that are probably of a petty nature, the Santa Monica Big Blue Bus does not accept transfer from the overlapping Culver City Bus.

https://bigbluebus.com/Rider-Info/Transferring.aspx
__________________

fskobic liked this post
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 10:36 AM   #2107
fskobic
jarunac
 
fskobic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Amsterdam/Zagreb
Posts: 733
Likes (Received): 213

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I think complex fare systems, limited coverage, a mix of operators that make a difference regarding fares etc are keeping a lot of people away from PT in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Most of the bus agencies use the Tap card, but interagency transfers are a byzantine ritual. Basically, you need to ask the bus driver to load an interagency transfer onto your card. Frankly, I don't understand why this extra step is necessary. A better approach would be for the transfer to be activated when you board the connecting bus.

What's more, the bus agencies hate each other. For example, for reasons that are probably of a petty nature, the Santa Monica Big Blue Bus does not accept transfer from the overlapping Culver City Bus.
I've been living in the Netherlands for the past two years and they have a great system. You get one card (called OV-chipkaart), and you use it for all public transport in the country - trains (national railway and smaller, private companies), metro systems, tram systems, city & regional bus systems, and ferries (the ones that are not free, at least). You can even rent bikes with it - the ones provided by the national railway company at basically every railway station in the country and other locations in the cities.

It's super simple to use, and you don't have to think twice about using another service. Usually when I travel to other countries, I tend to avoid using their buses and trams because I don't feel like figuring out how it works, how much it costs etc. But in the Netherlands, wherever I go, I just hop on a tram or bus without thinking much. Simple as that.

Not to mention that, size wise and population wise, the Netherlands and the LA metropolitan area are pretty similar.
__________________

Slartibartfas, aquaticko liked this post
fskobic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 07:52 PM   #2108
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,599
Likes (Received): 5962

OMG. That sounds worse than I thought.

I am convinced that this is a major reason why a certain share of the population is shunning PT. And it is terrible to see how the bus agencies are damaging their own business due to incredible short sightedness. This issue should be a very high priority and needs to be resolved if PT should become a true form of mass transit. PT isn't a business where competition in the classical sense works. You don't want to take a certain companie's bus because you like that company, but you take the bus that goes where you need to go. Period (exceptions are maybe express airport connections, inter city bus lines etc). Bus companies in an integrated network could very well maintain much of their independence, it would be enough if they all use the same fare platform, like most mobile phone companies also use standard plugs (yeah, I know that fruit company is different ...).


A good system would be a region wide one. And within that region you should need only one single card. For complex situations like in the LA area, a card with tapping pads in every vehicle (and tapping turntiles in metro/light rail stations) would be the best option I suppose. People would load money on the card for example, or have a monthly or annual ticket, and tap at every change (no matter where to where or if you change from one agency to another as long as you are within greater LA). What happens then does not have to concern you if you don't care.

With this technology one would not even have to change the current fare system that much but people would not be bothered with the complexities anymore. Even better of course would be an integration of the fare syste as far as possible, for example into a zone based network. Where you can get full network or specific zone passes for a week/month or a whole year. And if you are outside of that zone, you can simply use money loaded on the tap card by simply tapping the card as always and everywhere.



Of course, there would be also the Viennese model. Within the core zone (city proper) you just need to physically have a ticket / pass. No turntiles, tapping or anything on any PT line (Infriquently there'll be controls in any of the vehicles or stations.) Outside of the city proper you have a simple zone based system, and still no turntiles, tapping or anything. But I suppose that would be something rather utopian in LA. Maybe they show something like that in a future sequel to the movie "Her"
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK

Swede liked this post

Last edited by Slartibartfas; April 15th, 2016 at 08:02 PM.
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2016, 07:45 AM   #2109
mrsmartman
Registered User
 
mrsmartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,378
Likes (Received): 1452



https://karmatrendz.wordpress.com/20...-hale-studios/
__________________
mrsmartman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 23rd, 2016, 02:20 PM   #2110
mrsmartman
Registered User
 
mrsmartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,378
Likes (Received): 1452



(KCET Departures / Flickr)

http://archpaper.com/2015/08/gehry-w...raise-dissent/

Your Common Source of Photographs from California
__________________
mrsmartman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2016, 01:18 PM   #2111
starrwulfe
ご乗車頂いてありがとうございます。
 
starrwulfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 776
Likes (Received): 467

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Most of the bus agencies use the Tap card, but interagency transfers are a byzantine ritual. Basically, you need to ask the bus driver to load an interagency transfer onto your card. Frankly, I don't understand why this extra step is necessary. A better approach would be for the transfer to be activated when you board the connecting bus.

Source: go here: https://www.taptogo.net/TAPFAQ, then click on "How do I transfer from a Metro bus to another municipal line?"

List of participating agencies:

https://www.taptogo.net/articles/en_.../where-to-ride

What's more, the bus agencies hate each other. For example, for reasons that are probably of a petty nature, the Santa Monica Big Blue Bus does not accept transfer from the overlapping Culver City Bus.

https://bigbluebus.com/Rider-Info/Transferring.aspx
This is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen mass transit in LA do. When I was kid in Inglewood, I would have to transfer from RTD (today's Metro) to CulverCityBus or Gardena Bus all the time and the interagency transfer thing always messed me up. Even NYC doesn't have this issue because virtually every agency there takes a MetroCard!

Even here in Japan where I live now, all the disparate transit agencies *nationwide* agreed on a standard. Even though the card may have a different logo and name depending on where it was purchased, it works on subways in Tokyo, buses in Osaka and vending machines and stores all over. From start to finish it took 2½ years to implement.

So with all the money, research and time spent, why can't LACMTA and the munis fix this already?!
__________________

Swede, fskobic, Slartibartfas, pudgym29 liked this post
starrwulfe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2016, 04:28 PM   #2112
mrsmartman
Registered User
 
mrsmartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,378
Likes (Received): 1452



http://www.rentcafe.com/blog/cities/...city-slickers/
__________________

dimlys1994 liked this post
mrsmartman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2016, 04:53 PM   #2113
[atomic]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Likes (Received): 122

any news on the planned/proposed(?) arts district station?
__________________
Have a nice Day!
[atomic] no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2016, 06:24 AM   #2114
Ervin703
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 19
Likes (Received): 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by [atomic] View Post
any news on the planned/proposed(?) arts district station?
Inquiring minds wanna know
Ervin703 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2016, 10:41 PM   #2115
lkstrknb
Chicago Luke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 445
Likes (Received): 804

I finally had the chance to ride and film the Getty Center tram. It's one of just a few systems like this in the world that uses a cusion of air to lift the vehicle instead of wheels, similar to air hockey or a hovercraft. I wish there was a more efficient way to propel the vehicle instead of cables.

__________________
lkstrknb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2016, 02:55 PM   #2116
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,340
Likes (Received): 26130

Expo line extension to Santa Monica is now opened. Updated map on urbanrail.net:
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/lsan/los-angeles.htm

__________________
Для Вас:
Страница в ВК:

For you:
Facebook & Flickr pages

TM_Germany, jchernin, KingNick, Towersla liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2016, 04:02 PM   #2117
TM_Germany
Got Fachwerk?
 
TM_Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Limburg a.d. Lahn
Posts: 291
Likes (Received): 433

Very nice! I sure will ride it if I ever get to go to L.A.!

Concerning the map: what's the difference between light metro and light rail?
TM_Germany no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2016, 04:46 PM   #2118
Dan78
Registered User
 
Dan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Boston/Washington DC/Berlin
Posts: 156
Likes (Received): 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Germany View Post
Very nice! I sure will ride it if I ever get to go to L.A.!

Concerning the map: what's the difference between light metro and light rail?
I think Robert Schwandl who made that map considers the difference to be that "Light Metro" is totally grade-separated and does not have level crossings with auto traffic whereas "Light Rail" may run in its own right-of-way (aerial, at-grade, underground) but may also run mixed with street traffic (either in the street median or just in the lane itself) and have level street crossings, but he doesn't always consistently apply this distinction in his maps.

The LA Green Line is totally elevated (aerial) and does not mix with street traffic. The new Crenshaw line will be a mix of at-grade sections, underground sections and aerial sections.

I know a while back Schwandl was insistent that "Metro" could only refer to a totally separated system (or track), though he admitted there were some outlier cases like Chicago and Newcastle (UK), which are Metro systems that actually have some grade-level auto crossings.
__________________

TM_Germany liked this post
Dan78 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2016, 05:13 PM   #2119
TM_Germany
Got Fachwerk?
 
TM_Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Limburg a.d. Lahn
Posts: 291
Likes (Received): 433

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan78 View Post
I think Robert Schwandl who made that map considers the difference to be that "Light Metro" is totally grade-separated and does not have level crossings with auto traffic whereas "Light Rail" may run in its own right-of-way (aerial, at-grade, underground) but may also run mixed with street traffic (either in the street median or just in the lane itself) and have level street crossings, but he doesn't always consistently apply this distinction in his maps.

The LA Green Line is totally elevated (aerial) and does not mix with street traffic. The new Crenshaw line will be a mix of at-grade sections, underground sections and aerial sections.

I know a while back Schwandl was insistent that "Metro" could only refer to a totally separated system (or track), though he admitted there were some outlier cases like Chicago and Newcastle (UK), which are Metro systems that actually have some grade-level auto crossings.
Thanks for the answer, though what I don't understand is the difference between a fully grade-seperated light-rail line and a regular heavy-metro. Is it only the rolling stock, electrification and maybe signalling?

Aside from that, what will the travel time be between Metro Center and Downtown Santa Monica? Is it competetive with car travel?
__________________

Dan78 liked this post
TM_Germany no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2016, 05:55 PM   #2120
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,037
Likes (Received): 8712

50 minutes.

Here's an article about the whole issue and why LA should have gone with heavy rail instead: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...nap-story.html
__________________
Europa per gli europei
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
los angeles

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium