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Old November 22nd, 2016, 08:19 PM   #2421
Slartibartfas
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Quote:
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26 years alter, LA is rivaling cities that have been at it for way longer.
Let's stay real for a moment. LA's progress is more than substantial but LA's high priority PT network is still badly lacking if you judge it objectively based on what it offers today and not based on how incredibly far it has come since it hit the bottom line.

LA isn't rivalling any self respecting major Euroepan city in terms of metro coverage and service quality. (There exist some negative examples in Europe as well but they are far from the rule)
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 09:14 PM   #2422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Let's stay real for a moment. LA's progress is more than substantial but LA's high priority PT network is still badly lacking if you judge it objectively based on what it offers today and not based on how incredibly far it has come since it hit the bottom line.

LA isn't rivalling any self respecting major Euroepan city in terms of metro coverage and service quality. (There exist some negative examples in Europe as well but they are far from the rule)
Right, but you have to consider all aspects. This si a 500 square mile city.....only the City, yet Metro is a County entity. We have to spread funds for buses, bike paths, LTR's, subways, road improvement, etc.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 10:08 PM   #2423
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Don't get me wrong. I think LA is doing a lot to get back a decent PT network, but if you want to play in the 1st league you also have to accept the high standards used there.

Even if one accepts the size argument (Tokyo isn't exactly small either, in fact it is quite comparable to LA), the current network is having some very major holes which simply are not acceptable in a great quality PT network. I am talking here about Beverly Hills, Westwood, UCLA, Miracle Mile etc etc. Some of these sore points are being addressed as we speak, others are only far down the line or not even that.

Also if you look at the frequencies of the high priority lines, those are hardly on par with what can be expected in many other cities.

All of that can be explained and is simply unavoidable when you are coming from where LA had been, initially . But it still means that LA is not yet in a position to claim its rivalling other cities with great PT service.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 11:46 PM   #2424
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Yes, we do have a long way to go. The region is vast and funding is difficult to squeeze out of Washington. At least we started 26 years ago and have (local) funding for the future. I imagine things will be better in 20 years (I hope so).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Don't get me wrong. I think LA is doing a lot to get back a decent PT network, but if you want to play in the 1st league you also have to accept the high standards used there.

Even if one accepts the size argument (Tokyo isn't exactly small either, in fact it is quite comparable to LA), the current network is having some very major holes which simply are not acceptable in a great quality PT network. I am talking here about Beverly Hills, Westwood, UCLA, Miracle Mile etc etc. Some of these sore points are being addressed as we speak, others are only far down the line or not even that.

Also if you look at the frequencies of the high priority lines, those are hardly on par with what can be expected in many other cities.

All of that can be explained and is simply unavoidable when you are coming from where LA had been, initially . But it still means that LA is not yet in a position to claim its rivalling other cities with great PT service.
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Old November 23rd, 2016, 03:24 AM   #2425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Don't get me wrong. I think LA is doing a lot to get back a decent PT network, but if you want to play in the 1st league you also have to accept the high standards used there.

Even if one accepts the size argument (Tokyo isn't exactly small either, in fact it is quite comparable to LA), the current network is having some very major holes which simply are not acceptable in a great quality PT network. I am talking here about Beverly Hills, Westwood, UCLA, Miracle Mile etc etc. Some of these sore points are being addressed as we speak, others are only far down the line or not even that.

Also if you look at the frequencies of the high priority lines, those are hardly on par with what can be expected in many other cities.

All of that can be explained and is simply unavoidable when you are coming from where LA had been, initially . But it still means that LA is not yet in a position to claim its rivalling other cities with great PT service.
Ok, so you are considering what I said, the scale, the distances, financing and that LA only has 26 years on it, unlike Tokyo, New York, Paris, London. Etc. Some of those cities have been at it for 100 years.

So what that means is that we're not THERE yet, where you want LA to be. But considering everything, this isn't bad for starting from scratch and 26 years.

So, ignore the tittle of the article, read the content.

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Old November 24th, 2016, 12:16 AM   #2426
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Yes, that was my whole point, that LA isn't there yet. It isn't giving NYC or most of the major European cities a run for their money. Yet, it is doing a lot to change that and has come already a long way.

It isn't bad for starting 26 years ago, not at all, but it isn't great either, when simply comparing the status quo to other cities. That's all I said.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 01:42 AM   #2427
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but it isn't great either, when simply comparing the status quo to other cities. That's all I said.
Again, you cannot compare LA 's to other cities exactly for the same reasons we have agreed on.

Does LA have the same needs as those cities? Yes!
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Old November 24th, 2016, 07:11 PM   #2428
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Maybe so, but you can judge the quality of a city's network based on certain criteria.

LA is great in terms of progress, but certainly not when being judged by the status quo itself. There have been studies on the nature and location of the urban core of LA (this one for example: http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/re...coll3/id/57565) and that core follows the Wilshire corridor from Downtown to Santa Monica plus Hollywood. Downtown to Korea Town and Hollywood is already well served by true Metro. However other core neighbourhoods like the Miracle Mile, Beverly Hills, Western Hollywood etc are simply white spots on the Metro map to date. And I am not even talking about the connection of Hollywood to Beverly Hills and further westwards.

This is where the backbone of the network should be found, yet it is its weak point instead. Obviously, the Purple Line extension is addressing a lot of those aspects and resolving them. However the important Crenshaw Line extension to Hollywood, connecting to the Red Line, is very far down the road, isn't it? It is my understanding that those two lines should have the highest priority.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 10:45 PM   #2429
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I voted for Measure M. We happily raised our taxes ($120B). I take the subway often, just the other day to see a Kings game downtown. It's a great alternative but however much maligned Los Angeles has the greatest freeway system in the world (and the second largest bus system too). It's the combo which sets us apart.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 12:16 AM   #2430
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Measure M is also meant to upgrade commuter rail, right? I would then suggest to improve 2 connections: the antalope valley line. I'm not familiar with this region at all, but isn't it possible to build tracks through the Mt. Gleason area? It would shorten the commuting time heavily and thus create a higher ridership and better connection between LA and Lancaster, a big city without proper PT. My second suggestion would be the extension of the San Bernadinoline to Hesperia and Victorville, again 2 rather big places without railconnections.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 02:51 AM   #2431
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An extension to Victorville would be prohibitive due to the congestion on Cajon Pass. The tracks there are at saturation and have been for decades despite constant upgrading work. That's the main problem right there.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 05:53 AM   #2432
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Metro (Los Angeles County) funds a portion of Metrolink, but does not run or control it. Measure M will fund upgrades for Metrolink, which is an inter-county agency. I like the Victorville extension idea.

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Measure M is also meant to upgrade commuter rail, right? I would then suggest to improve 2 connections: the antalope valley line. I'm not familiar with this region at all, but isn't it possible to build tracks through the Mt. Gleason area? It would shorten the commuting time heavily and thus create a higher ridership and better connection between LA and Lancaster, a big city without proper PT. My second suggestion would be the extension of the San Bernadinoline to Hesperia and Victorville, again 2 rather big places without railconnections.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #2433
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Let me be clear here. Any extension of Metrolink through Mt. Gleason is extremely unlikely for the foreseeable future. The California HSR is planned to have a route through the general area. This route will be only operable with electric trains due to the steep grades and long tunnels. It is also proving to be one of the most "controversial" aspects of the whole HSR program, with local landowners throwing gigantic fits over perceived impacts. When this alignment is built, if there is any spare capacity on the tracks and Metrolink has any compatible rolling stock, then they might serve it. However, a dedicated Metrolink alignment is basically a no-go anytime this side of 2060. There is nowhere near enough demand to justify such an incredibly expensive line, especially when the current route is time-competitive with driving.

A route to Hesperia and Victorville is similarly off-limits due to various reasons. While there is track over Cajon Pass, there is no spare capacity on it and it is incredibly slow and circuitous. To understand, there are currently four tracks over the pass, with plans for tracks five and six in place. Also, in 1966 the Santa Fe scheduled the Grand Canyon to stop at Victorville at 8:25 AM and run non-stop to San Bernardino to arrive at 9:55 AM. That's 90 minutes to cross Cajon. While there have been some improvements in locomotives since then, the Santa Fe was renowned for pushing the limits of speed while still being safe (their record on both ends remains enviable). So its unlikely that there would be any significant improvements in modern times. Any new commuter rail line would require a tremendously expensive new tunnel alignment to serve a population base that, again, simply can not justify it. However, HSR provides hope here as well. The planned Las Vegas HSR leg will intially terminate at Victorville. Once the route into downtown LA is complete, a link will be built from Victorville to Palmdale, and both sides of the mountain will have timely service to downtown LA.

In terms of a feasible Metrolink extension, there are several alternatives that are up for consideration. All of these represent significant investment to one degree or another, and are still something of a "wishlist" of routes.

Hemet, via Moreno Valley and Perris

Temecula via Lake Elsinore and Temescal Valley

Coachella via Palm Springs and Calimesa

Ventura via Fillmore and Santa Paula

Ojai via Mira Monte and Ventura

Santa Barbera via Summerland and La Conchita.

As you may note, some of these would require massive investments to reopen abandoned rail lines. Others would need significant expansion of capacity on existing routes. Nevertheless, they have in recent years all been subjects of studies with varying degrees of seriousness.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 01:48 AM   #2434
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Final study approved for transit station to connect Metro Rail to LAX











ARTICLE
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 10:52 AM   #2435
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Is that a Googie-style station I see proposed for LAX/ Metro Rail??!!!

Yessssss.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 12:01 AM   #2436
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"Blue Line Could See Additional Grade Separation"

http://urbanize.la/post/blue-line-co...ade-separation


Rendering of the proposed Wardlow Station grade separation (Image: Metro)
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Old December 6th, 2016, 12:07 AM   #2437
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Metro has announced that beginning 2016.10.24, Expo Line trains will have peak headways throughout the day. That is, from 6 am to 8 pm on weekdays, trains will run every six minutes.

http://thesource.metro.net/2016/10/1...6-min-service/
They've rolled this back. Now it will be every 12 minutes during mid-day, effective 2016.12.11. Yuck.

http://thesource.metro.net/2016/12/0...effect-dec-11/
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Old December 6th, 2016, 08:53 AM   #2438
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So they need to improve headways on the blue line to support it....
What is the likely hood of that happening.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 09:42 AM   #2439
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Every 12 minutes sort of takes the "rapid" put of Rapid Transit.

I'm curious why Metrolink doesn't vastly improve it's service to go from just a commuter rail system to a real suburban rail system like Germany's U-Bahns, Paris RER, Syd/Mel's Suburban Rail, or Toronto's developing RER system.

It is MUCH cheaper to build, would serve many more areas which is very important in a city as spread out as LA, and can be introduced incrementally like electrification, more stations, trains, frequency as ridership builds and money becomes available.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 05:35 PM   #2440
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RER is cheaper to build only in comparison to subways.

Metrolink has to deal with the fact that it doesn't own all of its lines, sharing ownership and operation with busy freight railroads. Also, not all of the lines have the demand necessary to justify the investment. That means less economies of scale.
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