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Old November 6th, 2009, 08:00 PM   #441
JustinB
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Agreed. The posts should be deleted, or moved.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 08:28 PM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavito View Post
Incredible picture!!!!

Where did you take it?
I didn't. But that's from the 1st Street Bridge.
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Old November 7th, 2009, 07:08 AM   #443
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Quote:
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Really? The most extensive PT system worldwide? Are you sure? Bigger than the one of New York, London or Paris?
I said ONE OF. At the time there were 2 street car systems back when most subway systems were quite young and small. Of course those cities probably had their own streetcars as well, but LA had massive coverage.
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Old November 7th, 2009, 05:21 PM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchernin View Post
this is a thread about la, not melbourne

lets keep it that way shall we
Please do not feed the spam bots

(sorry I can't delete them, I'm not a mod in this section)
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Old November 8th, 2009, 05:24 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Yes, the Pacific Electric system. It was both a streetcar and interurban system. It predated the freeways considerably and is attributed to be the reason the Los Angeles metro area is so spread out.

Map of Pacific Electric system:
http://www.erha.org/pe_system_map.jpg

The builder of the PE, Henry Huntington, was also a real estate tycoon. His business model of rail line building and adjacent real estate development was emulated by many Japanese private railway companies, which are still going strong and are profitable.
Thats very interesting indeed. In fact many cities that had been decently large already in the early last century or before, featured impressive PT networks, even if you may not believe it when looking at them nowadays.

Even in cities like Vienna were trams are still very present there are so many former lines that have just vanished. Sometimes they resurface when a road is repaired and below still the old rails are to be found...
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Old November 9th, 2009, 07:14 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Thats very interesting indeed. In fact many cities that had been decently large already in the early last century or before, featured impressive PT networks, even if you may not believe it when looking at them nowadays.

Even in cities like Vienna were trams are still very present there are so many former lines that have just vanished. Sometimes they resurface when a road is repaired and below still the old rails are to be found...
Don't know how much you trust Wikipedia but,


"In 1911, Southern Pacific bought out Huntington except for the LARy, the narrow gauge street car system known locally as Yellow Cars, and SP also purchased several other passenger railways that Huntington owned in the Los Angeles area, including the Pasadena and Pacific. This resulted in what was called the "Great Merger" of 1911. At this time the Pacific Electric became the largest operator of interurban electric railway passenger service in the world with over 1,000 miles (1,600 km) of track. The system ran to destinations all over Southern California, particularly to the south and east....After the Great Merger, Henry Huntington retained the narrow gauge Los Angeles Railway company. LARy provided local streetcar service in central Los Angeles and to nearby communities. These trolleys were known as the "Yellow Cars" and actually carried more passengers than the PE's "Red Cars" since they ran in the most densely populated portions of Los Angeles, including south to Hawthorne and along Pico Boulevard to near West Los Angeles to terminate at the huge Sears Roebuck store and distribution center (which was the L.A Railway's most popular line, the "P" line). The Yellow Cars' unusual narrow gauge PCC cars, by now painted MTA two-tone green, continued to operate until the end of rail service in 1963 to the Sears complex on Pico Boulevard"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Electric

Just below the title it says its the biggest. Maybe some marketing puffery, or maybe it's true.


Between Pacific Electric Red Car and Los Angeles Ry Yellow car, I think LA was a big deal in terms of being a top transit system in the world.
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Last edited by dl3000; November 9th, 2009 at 07:22 AM.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 11:35 AM   #447
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This isn't the only time LA has passed on a good public transit system:

http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/LA1963.html
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Old November 9th, 2009, 09:25 PM   #448
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I think LA made a good decision on that one.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #449
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I agree on that. Monorail as a serious PT back bone for a metropolis of the size of LA would have been a pretty bad decision. Light rail / metro as it is realized now is the best option they could have chosen.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 12:22 AM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
This isn't the only time LA has passed on a good public transit system:

http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/LA1963.html
Well..on the bright side, Disneyland does have a monorail. Which is the most used monorail system in the US.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 12:42 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
This isn't the only time LA has passed on a good public transit system:

http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/LA1963.html
woew! never heard of this but I'm glad we didn't do it.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 01:39 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I agree on that. Monorail as a serious PT back bone for a metropolis of the size of LA would have been a pretty bad decision. Light rail / metro as it is realized now is the best option they could have chosen.
Light rail as a serious PT back bone for a metropolis the size of LA is a pretty bad decision. The light rail Blue Line between Long Beach and downtown Los Angeles is already near capacity. It should have been built as a metro. On the Blue Line, the trains are already at the limit in the frequency they can operate without creating excessive disruptions to cross traffic and the trains can't be made longer due to complications that prevent the station platforms from being made longer. The few blocks on city streets that the Blue line and future Expo/Aqua Line share are likely to become a light rail traffic jam.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #453
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Starting in the 1920s and extending through the 1970s, there had been several proposals for networks of metro lines in the Los Angeles area. You can read the history at the following link.

http://www.scsra.org/library/rapid-transit-history/
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Old November 10th, 2009, 10:33 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
Light rail as a serious PT back bone for a metropolis the size of LA is a pretty bad decision. The light rail Blue Line between Long Beach and downtown Los Angeles is already near capacity. It should have been built as a metro. On the Blue Line, the trains are already at the limit in the frequency they can operate without creating excessive disruptions to cross traffic and the trains can't be made longer due to complications that prevent the station platforms from being made longer. The few blocks on city streets that the Blue line and future Expo/Aqua Line share are likely to become a light rail traffic jam.
Well, of course, a metro would have been the best option, but it might have needed an utopic amount of public support in such a car centric city to realize plans for a metro network from scratch.

A light rail network can work as part of the solution as well. If you reach the capacity, you can always make the network denser (adding parallel lines). If capacity needs it by then, this could possibly be built as a metro as well.

PS:
Not for a light rail but for tramways, in Vienna there are rail tracks where you have 1 vehicle per 1-2 min passing by. Sure this may not be possible for a light rail, I don't know, but there should be potential to improve nonetheless.
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Old November 13th, 2009, 01:23 AM   #455
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VIDEO, of the new East L.A. section of the Gold line, scheduled to open Sunday November 15th 2009.

This is a VIP tour of the whole route (which will be extended in the future), starting at Union Station and going East to East Los Angeles.

1.7 Miles is underground.

VIDEO 1


VIDEO 2
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Old November 13th, 2009, 04:58 PM   #456
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Urbanrail is great for major metros (and European systems in general) but it lacks a lot of systems in the USA that are heritage based or smaller. With that said though, it is a fantastic site and is one of the best resources for information on world metro systems.

Steve
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Old November 14th, 2009, 10:35 PM   #457
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Urbanrail is run by a born Austrian , but then California is also run by a born Austrian (sorry for that little off topic post)
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Old November 14th, 2009, 11:28 PM   #458
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Recently i saw a TV program (i think called "cities of the underground" in spanish it was "ciudades ocultas") where they show the central station of the system mentioned above. It still exists underneath a large, old building in downtown LA. It is very large, but today is completely empty and sealed. according to the show, the company was bougth by automobile related enterprises that dismantled the service in order to favour individual locomotion, then they closed and sealed that space, leaving it as large, empty basement in downtown LA.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 11:22 AM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCs77 View Post
Recently i saw a TV program (i think called "cities of the underground" in spanish it was "ciudades ocultas") where they show the central station of the system mentioned above. It still exists underneath a large, old building in downtown LA. It is very large, but today is completely empty and sealed. according to the show, the company was bougth by automobile related enterprises that dismantled the service in order to favour individual locomotion, then they closed and sealed that space, leaving it as large, empty basement in downtown LA.
Yes, GM and some automobile tire manufacturers conspired with City Hall to implement Buses and dismantle the enormous Light Rail System LA had.

It's been mentioned before, but here it is again; it was the largest in the world.

Here's that building.......

This was Los Angeles' Gran Central Terminal.




These are the abandoned huge tunnels used by the Red Cars under Downtown Los Angeles. They have been walled up by buildings and other edifications that came later.



image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

eyetwist, flickr

image hosted on flickr

eyetwist, flickr

image hosted on flickr

eyetwist, flickr

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Old November 15th, 2009, 01:32 PM   #460
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How far do they go? D'yu guys have more info 'bout that, how long the tunnels are, and where on the map they are? I'd love to know more.
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