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Old July 5th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #601
G5man
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I wish we could just buy 10 TBMs for Los Angeles and go ahead with not only the 30/10 plan but the Get LA Moving plan. Sure this is from drunk on transit land but LA doesn't have much in terms of fast frequent rail systems yet. And of course, this one has been shown many times before, I mapped it in GE with a few modifications.

http://glam.fminus.com/files/final-1080.gif

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Old July 5th, 2010, 06:56 PM   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyrobot View Post
And I thought commuting in LA is just via cars on freeways! Someone said LA is so spread out that it is not feasible for subway systems.
LA urban area has 17.000.000+ people, and has places with high concetration of activities (universities, downtown and bisness centers, sport centers, airports, main railway station, medical centers etc.) some of this places make more then 200.000 daily migrations to little place. (I don`t know real statistic figures) Roads are for year to year more and more congested. Air quality is one of the worst in the world, and very big spaces without buildings, which may be parks, are parkings, lot of them in atractive area near downtown. Existing bus system gives to customers quality worse then car (in city where just everyone have car), with ticket cheaper then oil like only benefit.

Compare 5 rail rapid transit lines in LA
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/lsan/los-angeles.htm
with 5 line rail rapid systems in Washington D.C. and St.Petersburg
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/wash/washington.htm
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/pet/petersbg.htm

What are benefits of Washington and St.Petersburg RRT systems, compare to LA:
- Lines with trass from one side of city to the other side
- You can get every station in system with no more then one transfer (in St.P. when they finish Admiralteyskaya in 2011)
- High frequency on all lines
- Junction in downtown
- Good connections subway and suburban railways, where every suburban line have conection with subway in suburban brunches
- Very high ridership, because people have good transit network
- With airport connection (in Washington under construction), you have direct connection to the downtown, and other RRT lines with no more then one transfer

In LA case priorities are (by my oppinion):
1. to make good and usefull juction in downtown, with lines from one side to other side of downtown,
2. to connect universities in RRT network,
3. to connect LAX with direct link to down
4. to build city own passenger railtracks, separate from freight BNSF railways, in first stage from Burbank to Santa Ana for unlimited passenger railway service

It is possible to make subway cheaper, using grade separation of motorways and raillines, which use a lot of cities all around the world (Boston, Chicago, Washington, Teheran...). I tried to find on Google Earth where is logical axtension of subway to the east, and I found crapy BRT on the best place for subway extension, and found university and medical center!
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Old July 6th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #603
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I guess I understand our colleague's point. Janitors don't make US$ 12/hour + benefits + pension + health care + paid sick leave + paid "school" days on private enterprises. Therefore, they are reaping a far higher salary there, which wouldn't be a problem if this pattern of overcompensations didn't hamper the ability of the transit authority to operate more efficiently in terms of its finances.
Well, if I'm quick to anger it's because my dad was a janitor at a school. He got $15 hour + benefits and retired after 45 years of service. That was the living money I had growing up.

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or if the work done justified the compensation, which anyone who has taken a ride on the LA metro knows is not the case. For 12 bucks an hour plus everything else i would expect those trains to be sparkling and the floors to be spotless, every light working and every escalator sparkling. instead brand new stations already look old and worn.
After my dad left the school went with new lower paid janitors and the result was that everyone now complains about how dirty it is when before that was something they never brought up. Also my dad made it a part of his job to know every student by name and know what was up in their lives whereas the new ones barely speak to anyone.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 07:08 PM   #604
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So yesterday marked 20 years since the opening of the Blue Line (Los Angeles's first light rail line).


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Old July 17th, 2010, 06:09 AM   #605
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Hard to beleive the blue line is only a little younger than i am. A dream truly realized. May the system continue to grow.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 09:03 AM   #606
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I think LA deserves a round of applause for it's efforts.

We have money rolling from Measure R, Gold line foothill expansion is starting, expo line is being built, Westside Subway pretty much confirmed including other subway expansions, Orange line being extended, Metrolink improvements, and even more lines proposed. Oh my goodness, even our Mayor is on board.

By 2030 I think our system will be pretty damn decent.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 07:14 AM   #607
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not to mention new trains for metrolink and tons of new bus lines. But i think its important to remember that the LA metro is done by the COUNTY not the city, while Mayor V is important, Antonovich is the final word, but he seems fairly open to the idea. But im at the point where i say to the purple line BUILD THE DAMN THING ALREADY!
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Old July 28th, 2010, 07:09 PM   #608
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I'm all for LA building more lines, but it really needs to understand that light rail is just not the right way to go. Treating light rail the same way as rapid transit is a bad move; it will reach capacity quickly (since it has a lower capacity to begin with) and cannot operate with the same speed and efficiency as heavy rail. The Westside Extension needs to happen, then a conversion of the Blue Line to heavy rail.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 11:25 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
I'm all for LA building more lines, but it really needs to understand that light rail is just not the right way to go. Treating light rail the same way as rapid transit is a bad move; it will reach capacity quickly (since it has a lower capacity to begin with) and cannot operate with the same speed and efficiency as heavy rail. The Westside Extension needs to happen, then a conversion of the Blue Line to heavy rail.
A Blue Line capacity expansion project would probably come into play after the Measure R projects finish getting built, but it would probably entail lengthening of platforms to handle more passengers and elimination of some at-grade sections (such as the segment in D.T. Long Beach) And besides, most of the Measure R extensions modes have already been set in stone, so it's kind of useless to change them now.
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Old July 30th, 2010, 12:57 AM   #610
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Old July 30th, 2010, 05:03 AM   #611
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No, brah. But you do expose yourself to a ban for spamming.
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Old July 30th, 2010, 06:16 PM   #612
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No, brah. But you do expose yourself to a ban for spamming.
Who is that aimed to?
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Old July 30th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #613
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Who is that aimed to?
It was aimed at spammer who has since been banned. Most of his spam has been deleted.
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Old July 31st, 2010, 03:25 AM   #614
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SO I took the Yellow Line from Union Station (beautiful by the way) to Little Tokyo. How fast does this thing go? It seems to be very slow. Is the max speed of the yellow line that slow? How does it compare to the full metro?
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Old July 31st, 2010, 11:16 PM   #615
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LA pushing to become nation's mass transit leader
Posted: Jul 31, 2010 9:07 AM PDT

By DAISY NGUYEN
Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES (AP) - The region famous for jilting the street car to take up a love affair with the automobile is trying to rekindle its long ago romance with commuter rail.

If successful, the novel plan to borrow billions from the federal government, led by Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, would result in the largest transit expansion project in the nation.

Los Angeles County voters agreed two years ago to pay a half-cent sales tax over the next 30 years to extend train and rapid bus lines, projects that would routinely require federal assistance.

But the mayor, who sits on a county transportation board, wants a loan instead of Washington handouts to get the projects built in a decade rather than 30 years. He contends it would save money in the long run, result in more construction jobs and less traffic and pollution.

If the approach works, it could set a precedent for cities and states across the country considering major rail and road improvements.

"We can't wait because traffic is unbelievable and the environmental problem is too severe," said Denny Zane, who is building a coalition of business, labor and environmental groups pushing for the plan. "The need for jobs and economic development is also very severe."

In the first half of the 20th century the Los Angeles region boasted an extensive system of streetcars and high-speed electric railways including the famed Red Cars. After World War II, Southern California began abandoning those systems in favor of personal automobiles and freeways, leaving mass transit to buses.

Now, with gridlock commonplace, the focus is back on high-capacity transit systems - light rail, interurban heavy rail, dedicated busways - to catch up with the transportation demands of millions of people.

But with federal and state transportation funds dwindling due to a reduction in gas tax revenue, experts say the time is right to test innovative ideas in transportation financing.

"The national government should help cities that are helping themselves and take advantage of these bold plans to transform how these places operate and function," said Robert Puentes, a fellow at the Brookings Institution's Metropolitan Policy Program.

Under the so-called 30/10 initiative, the sales tax would generate about $5.8 billion over the next 10 years to pay for a dozen projects.

Local transportation officials said another $8.8 billion is needed to pay for the estimated $14.6 billion total cost. By using the future sales tax revenue as collateral for long-term bonds and a low-interest federal loan, the county Metropolitan Transportation Authority could put these projects on the fast track. The county would repay the federal loan over 20 years with proceeds from the sales tax.

The projects include a long-awaited subway extension to the economically vibrant west side of Los Angeles (a plan often called the Subway to the Sea), a regional connector linking three rail lines in the downtown core, plus light rail extensions reaching Los Angeles International Airport and communities to the south and east. In all, completion of these projects would add 78 miles of rail and bus-only lanes to the current, 102-mile system and 77 million annual transit boardings to the MTA's current 445 million.

Because there is no existing federal funding program for the grand scale of projects Los Angeles County wants to get going at once, officials are seeking a combination of loans, grants and bonds that would require congressional approval.

The effort is picking up some momentum.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in a June letter that the 30/10 model "has the potential to transform the way we invest in transportation projects across the nation." In another nod to the plan, the Federal Transit Administration agreed to evaluate the Subway to the Sea for federal funding in its entirety instead of in three segments, giving the project an edge when it competes for grants from the agency.

"It's a good and healthy indicator of government support for the project," said Raffi Haig Hamparian, government relations manager at the MTA.

The region has had past successes in getting federal investments in massive transportation projects. The effort to obtain a $400 million federal loan for a $2.4 billion dedicated railway linking the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles with transcontinental railyards laid the groundworks for a 1998 federal credit program for significant transportation projects.

One transportation expert said the decision to incur debt over 30 years comes with inherent risks.

"Cost overruns will cost us more than we estimate now, and give us a certain amount of financial risks in the future," said Martin Wachs of the Rand Corp. think tank.

However, he said the benefits of accelerating the projects outweigh the negatives.

Transit agencies struggling for a bigger share of federal and state funds are paying attention.

The Regional Transportation Authority of Chicago faces funding shortages that restrict spending on maintaining and upgrading the system to $2.7 billion over five years, said director Steve Schlickman. Chicago operates the nation's second largest transit system.

"Hopefully other metropolitan areas will wake up and realize that virtually every major city in this country is underinvesting in their infrastructure," Schlickman said. "We can't rely on the federal government, we have to rely on all levels of government."

Villaraigosa said his staff has had discussions with officials from Houston, Chicago, New York and other cities interested in the 30/10 model to build their transportation projects faster.

"There's a lot of national interest because everybody's going to Washington knocking on doors and nobody's answering," the mayor said. "They're realizing that the best way to get those doors open is to leverage the little federal money that there is with local money."

Wachs said there isn't enough money to go around for every city lining up for federal funds to improve transportation systems, but those that are willing to put up their own money should get priority.

"They should have first dibs because their voters have been willing to tax themselves to get these important programs started, the national government should notice that," he said.

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #616
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SO I took the Yellow Line from Union Station (beautiful by the way) to Little Tokyo. How fast does this thing go? It seems to be very slow. Is the max speed of the yellow line that slow? How does it compare to the full metro?
Gold. Not yellow.

And if you went from Union Station to Little Tokyo, that's only 1 stop. The Gold Line goes over the 101 freeway. But the Gold Line is slow when it goes through the Mt. Washington area of Los Angeles. But it speeds up a bit once it gets to Pasadena.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 12:33 AM   #617
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Gold is only the name or just a wish i guess, coz on the metro maps the real color is yellow

But yu are right, it's pretty slow though.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 12:47 AM   #618
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SO I took the Yellow Line from Union Station (beautiful by the way) to Little Tokyo. How fast does this thing go? It seems to be very slow. Is the max speed of the yellow line that slow? How does it compare to the full metro?
You complain alot about speed , why is that?
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Old August 19th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #619
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SO I took the Yellow Line from Union Station (beautiful by the way) to Little Tokyo. How fast does this thing go? It seems to be very slow. Is the max speed of the yellow line that slow? How does it compare to the full metro?
Light rail vehicles from Siemens and Breda are operated on the Gold Line. The following is some information on the Breda vehicles.



The operating speed of 105 Kph translates to 65 mph. The trains might actually reach this speed on the segment in the median of I-210, but freeway traffic was easily able to overtake the trains when I rode that segment of the line. I'm sure the segment from Union Station to Little Tokyo operates at lower speeds. The slowest segment is where the line operates on city streets in Highland Park.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 01:23 PM   #620
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You complain alot about speed , why is that?
Because my main mode of trans. is the rapid transit. Subway.
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