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Old April 24th, 2011, 11:03 PM   #681
Falubaz
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...or
Red Line = 1
Purple Line = 2
Blue Line = 3
Green Line = 4
Gold Line = 5
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Old April 24th, 2011, 11:50 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
...or
Red Line = 1
Purple Line = 2
Blue Line = 3
Green Line = 4
Gold Line = 5
Or not.

People in LA use numbers in regards to freeways. It would be confusing to Angelinos even though we have names for our freeways that are imbedded in our vernacular.. Besides which, there is a 1 Freeway (Pacific Coast Highway) 2 Freeway (Glendale Freeway), and a 5 Freeway (Golden State Freeway).
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Old April 25th, 2011, 12:14 AM   #683
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I would suggest something like this:

Red Line Services:

-R1 Union Station to Wilshire/Western (current Purple Line)

-R2 Union Station to North Hollywood (current Red Line)

In this system the planned Pink line would be numbered R3 and a South Vermont subway would be numbered R4.

Blue Line Services:

-B1 7th St/ Metro Center to Long Beach Transit Mall (current Blue Line)

-B2 Redondo Bach to I-105/Norwalk (current Green Line)

-B3 Atlantic to Sierra Madre Villa (Current Gold Line)

-B4 7th St/ Metro Center to Venice/Robertson (Current Expo Line)

Under this system the planned Crenshaw line would be numbered B5. This system could be expanded for use on commuter Rail and BRT services.
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Old April 25th, 2011, 10:25 PM   #684
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How about colours for heavy rail (Red and Purple) and arterial designations for light rail (Eastern instead of Gold, Expo, Crenshaw, etc)?
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Old May 5th, 2011, 02:21 AM   #685
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Looks like Expo Phase 2 is nearing the starting point.

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Old May 5th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #686
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It's shockingly depressing that LA, a massive city in one of the world's richest countries, has a poorer public transportation system than Mexico City, a massive city in a developing country.

When will LA, which admittedly grew up after the car, follow the example of it's older sisters named Chicago and New York?

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Old May 5th, 2011, 12:16 PM   #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larmey View Post
It's shockingly depressing that LA, a massive city in one of the world's richest countries, has a poorer public transportation system than Mexico City, a massive city in a developing country.

When will LA, which admittedly grew up after the car, follow the example of it's older sisters named Chicago and New York?

There building a city / county wide system as we speak , how much more do you?
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Old May 5th, 2011, 02:30 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larmey View Post
It's shockingly depressing that LA, a massive city in one of the world's richest countries, has a poorer public transportation system than Mexico City, a massive city in a developing country.

When will LA, which admittedly grew up after the car, follow the example of it's older sisters named Chicago and New York?

Yeah, the contrast between Los Angeles and Mexico City is shocking, especially when you consider that most of the lines in Los Angeles are light rail, not metro.





For more information, see http://www.urbanrail.net/ .
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Old May 5th, 2011, 03:35 PM   #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larmey View Post
It's shockingly depressing that LA, a massive city in one of the world's richest countries, has a poorer public transportation system than Mexico City, a massive city in a developing country.

When will LA, which admittedly grew up after the car, follow the example of it's older sisters named Chicago and New York?

When money starts growing on trees?

Perhaps when construction workers start working for free?
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Old May 5th, 2011, 06:42 PM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
Yeah, the contrast between Los Angeles and Mexico City is shocking, especially when you consider that most of the lines in Los Angeles are light rail, not metro.
Subway construction costs about 2x what it does it Europe (with their unions, government health care, environmental standards and everything). I imagine it costs even less in Mexico than in Europe. Far fewer Mexicans own cars, so public transportation there is more likely to be seen as a necessity rather than something that's "nice to have" for "those people". So lower construction costs plus more public support plus a government not totally wedded to the auto/highway/low density sprawl paradigm equals large Metro system (in Mexico City, anyway).

I guess the question to ask is why is subway construction so costly in the U.S.

But, yeah, even despite all that, the current situation in L.A. is sad--recent progress notwithstanding. They've had nearly 80 years of false starts with building a Metro system. Just think where they'd be today if they had adopted the 1968 or 1976 plan (though perhaps we can be grateful the monorail idea was never adopted).

Past Visions of L.A.'s Transportation Future

I'm curious as to the projected systems reliance on light rail over heavy rail. I'm wondering if it's being done solely as a cost-abatement measure rather than because its the optimal mode type. None of this is to put down L.A.--they're on the right track with their 30/10 plan. I suspect as rising gas prices make auto transit less affordable there will be increased financial and political support for large scale, costly transit projects like expanding the L.A. Metro system.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 09:26 PM   #691
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A majority of LA is dense but not dense enough to fully support a subway.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 10:14 PM   #692
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LA is also too disperse and hasn't got a strong enough focus for lines - there's many centres in London, for instance, but Central London - itself somewhat dispersed with 2 or 3 hubs - is still very much the focus of where people want to go.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 12:21 AM   #693
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The Purple Line from Wilshire/Western to Century City is a MUST. This is well known.

But look what Metro just did.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...ail-lines.html

Quote:
Los Angeles transportation officials have unveiled the largest budget in the Metropolitan Transit Authority's history, a $4.2-billion plan that reflects the agency's heavy investment in rail projects around the region.

The budget includes money for a slew of rail lines, including the Crenshaw Line in South L.A. that should begin construction next year. The budget has operating funds for the Expo Line, which should open later this year.

There is also money for developing several more rail lines including the so-called "Subway to the Sea" and the "Regional Connector," which would link several existing rail lines through downtown L.A.

“Metro will be advancing one of the largest public works programs in the nation’s history in [fiscal year] 2012, with a dozen major transit and 15 highway projects in various stages of development,” Metro Chief Executive Art Leahy said in a statement.

Among the highlights:

$22 million to operate the first phase of the Expo Line, which is expected to open in November and will run from downtown L.A. to the edge of Culver City
$266 million to build the second phase of the Expo Line from Culver City to Santa Monica
$43 million to begin construction of the Crenshaw Line
$39 million for the Regional Connector, which would run through downtown L.A.
$50 million for the Westside Subway Extension, also known as the “Subway to the Sea”
$77 million for the Orange Line Extension
Metro officials said the proposed budget is balanced and is the first in about a decade that does not have an operating deficit. There are no fare increases included in the plan, and there is a proposal to reduce the cost of a day pass to $5 from $6 for at least six-months.

The budget, released late Tuesday, is balanced partially because of a slew of bus service cuts planned for June. The cuts include eliminating several lines and an overall 5.2% reduction in the number of hours Metro provides service.

Metro officials said they were able to save millions because of those cuts and that there were alternative transit options available for those riders. Some groups, such as the Bus Riders Union, say those cuts are unnecessary and will hurt riders.
Expo Line (Phase 1 is about 85% complete. Phase 2 will start construction later this month)


Crenshaw Line


Regional Connector
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Last edited by soup or man; May 6th, 2011 at 12:31 AM.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 01:15 AM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan78 View Post
...
I'm curious as to the projected systems reliance on light rail over heavy rail. I'm wondering if it's being done solely as a cost-abatement measure rather than because its the optimal mode type. ...
The Blue Line is already at capacity by some measures. The Expo/Aqua Line is expected to be at capacity the day it reaches Santa Monica. Blue Line trains cannot be made longer due to station platform lengths being limited by the distance between cross streets, and decreasing headways between Blue Line trains is not a good option either as cross traffic on some roads is already being impacted by train frequencies. I expect the same limitiations will exist for the Expo/Aqua Line. There is enough passenger demand along both these lines to have justified building a metro instead of light rail, but that was not an option due to cost.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 01:25 AM   #695
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The light rail system in LA is mostly grade separated, so it "almost" acts like a heavy rail metro. Also, we are able to get more bang for our buck with light rail compared to heavy rail. obviously in a perfect world, everything would be HRT but its just not feasible for the above mentioned reasons.

In the last few years LA has built or is building the following.

1) Gold Line foothill phase one (LRT, Downtown to Pasadena, Completed)
2) Gold Line eastside phase one (LRT, Downtown to East LA, Completed)
3) Expo Line Phase 1 (LRT, Downtown to Culver city, 85% complete)
4) Orange Line Phase 1 (BRT, grade separated, North Hollywood to Warner Center, Completed)
5) Orange Line Phase 2 (BRT, grade separated, Warner center to Canoga Park)

in the next couple of years, you will see the following being built...

1) Expo Phase 2 (LRT, Culver City to Santa Monica, starting in the next month)
2) Downtown Connector (Subway, Connects all light rail lines through Downtown, 2- 4 years)
3) Purple line extension (Subway HRT, extends from mid wilshire to westwood, 2- 4 years)
4) Crenshaw Line (LRT, connecting Expo line to Green and LAX, starting by the end of the year)
5) Green Line extension to LAX( LRT plus people mover, starting in 2- 5 years)


plus several more lines. LA will have a 115 - 130 mile system fairly shortly. not too bad considering where we were 10 years ago.

Last edited by LosAngelesSportsFan; May 6th, 2011 at 10:14 AM.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 09:02 AM   #696
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Let's not forget that the Green Line is COMPLETELY grade separated already. People seem very quick to forget about the green line and all of the blue line's grade separations. I will also add that the Blue Line runs mostly on a private right of way for most of it's route, which, plus the synchronized traffic lights on Washington Bl makes the blue line pretty speedy between Willow Station and Downtown.

The Expo Line is grade separated where it needs to be. It has the a trench at USC and 3 full aerial stations at La Brea, La Cienega, and Culver City.

I was abit disappointed with the Gold Line Eastside...1)Would have liked the Red Line to get to East LA instead, and 2) even though it has a subway segment(and the subway stations are really nice BTW) the street running is atrocious. No signal synchronization makes it painfully slow. The indiana station junction is the worst. 2 tight turns for one station? Jesus.

I also like how our fellow forum members keep repeating on how our system sucks....something we really know. We have to keep repeating that we are trying build, build, build, despite ridiculously high construction costs of the modern age. That still isn't enough for them. Then they have to talk $hit about the stuff we DO have. Your city has a great subway system. We get it, but I frankly could careless...oh and the Mexico City Metro can kiss my LA a$$.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 02:20 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
The light rail system in LA is mostly grade separated, so it "almost" acts like a heavy rail metro. ...
The Green Line is presently fully grade-separated, but that won't remain the case once future extensions are complete. Segments of the other lines are also grade-separated, and the operational speeds are similar to a metro for those segments, but the overall capacity of the lines is not similar to a metro, and that is the major problem.
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Old May 8th, 2011, 02:45 AM   #698
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Originally Posted by State of the Union View Post
I also like how our fellow forum members keep repeating on how our system sucks....something we really know. We have to keep repeating that we are trying build, build, build, despite ridiculously high construction costs of the modern age. That still isn't enough for them. Then they have to talk $hit about the stuff we DO have. Your city has a great subway system. We get it, but I frankly could careless...oh and the Mexico City Metro can kiss my LA a$$.
This.
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Old May 8th, 2011, 04:41 AM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
The Green Line is presently fully grade-separated, but that won't remain the case once future extensions are complete. Segments of the other lines are also grade-separated, and the operational speeds are similar to a metro for those segments, but the overall capacity of the lines is not similar to a metro, and that is the major problem.
I all reality, the South Bay green line extension is likely to be operated as the Southern part of the Crenshaw line. The other two extensions likely to occur (Green Line to LAX and GreenLine Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs Metrolink) will be completely grade separated.
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Old May 8th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #700
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The following is a map of Measure R projects:



The eastward extension of the Green Line to the Metrolink line (gray dashed line east of I-5) has been widely discussed, but is not funded under Measure R.

Measure R does fund the West Santa Ana Transit Corridor Project, which will follow an old Pacific Electric right of way. The transit mode for that line might be BRT or LRT. With either mode, it probably won't be grade-separated. If it is LRT, it would make sense for it to be operated as a branch of the Green Line.

The short spur into LAX off the north-south trunk of the Crenshaw Line is presently envisioned as a peoplemover. The Green Line could be configured to reverse direction at the LAX airport station, but it would probably make more sense for it to continue north along the non-grade-separated Crenshaw Line.

Also not presently funded is the northward extension of the Crenshaw Line to meet the Purple Line metro. This is widely discussed, but remains unfunded. If it does come about, the Crenshaw Line will likely be at capacity.
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