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Old November 12th, 2012, 12:03 PM   #1001
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High car ownership does not always equate to low public transport ridership. Just thought I would say that, because people have been speculating that the reason the transit tax was opposed was due to high car ownership.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 08:27 PM   #1002
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Hmmm then how can you endorse suburban residents who are more than likely to drive than take public transit to support a measure that may have little to no impact to them, especially they live far from the City of Los Angeles to begin with, but still part of Los Angeles County?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #1003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyCity View Post
High car ownership does not always equate to low public transport ridership. Just thought I would say that, because people have been speculating that the reason the transit tax was opposed was due to high car ownership.
The reason the transit tax failed was largely because of poor understanding about the actual benefits of Measure J (borrowing billions with record low interest rates, etc.) and exaggerated fears about a tax "hike." Plus some extra misinformation courtesy of the BRU, although their efforts were too small in scale to reach that many voters.

Lots of people complaining that a half cent tax was too oppressive for future generations to deal with. A half cent tax that amounts to $25 per year. Not exactly an oppressive burden for the people, especially considering very tangible benefit of better transit in the near, instead of distant future.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:07 AM   #1004
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the BRU being the Bus Riders Union? Dang, I think the bill should be rewritten in a way that it won't sound like a burden to Los Angeles County residents; rather, it will pave the way to improving existing and potentially expanding LA Metro, Commuter Express, DASH, and Metrolink services.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #1005
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The Bus Riders Union is one of the most anachronistic, backwards and classist NGO I've ever read of their platform. They were opposed to Measure J because they are against train-based public transportation.

Their platform/argumentations goes on this line:
- bus is good because the poor ride it

- the more direct (without transfer) bus routes, the better, no matter how circuitous or how infrequent they are [they sued the transit agency there over streamlining bus routes even if service were increased]


- rail is bad because it improves the areas it serves, increasing real estate prices along the route and driving low-income out, bus is better because it is slower, and doesn't attract newcomers


- police are the enemy and policemen should be fired, and replaced by new 1000 bus drivers. They wanted LA county to stop hiring 1000 new policemen crying foul of racial profiling ant other b.s.

I'm not kidding or making this up, you can all read their absurdities on their website.

Moreover, the Bus Riders Union teamed up with other wackos such as the "Beverly Hills High School Concerned Parents" (look at a video I posted few pages back on this thread) to oppose all new rail transportation in LA area.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #1006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Bus Riders Union is one of the most anachronistic, backwards and classist NGO I've ever read of their platform. They were opposed to Measure J because they are against train-based public transportation.

Their platform/argumentations goes on this line:
- bus is good because the poor ride it

- the more direct (without transfer) bus routes, the better, no matter how circuitous or how infrequent they are [they sued the transit agency there over streamlining bus routes even if service were increased]


- rail is bad because it improves the areas it serves, increasing real estate prices along the route and driving low-income out, bus is better because it is slower, and doesn't attract newcomers


- police are the enemy and policemen should be fired, and replaced by new 1000 bus drivers. They wanted LA county to stop hiring 1000 new policemen crying foul of racial profiling ant other b.s.

I'm not kidding or making this up, you can all read their absurdities on their website.

Moreover, the Bus Riders Union teamed up with other wackos such as the "Beverly Hills High School Concerned Parents" (look at a video I posted few pages back on this thread) to oppose all new rail transportation in LA area.
Agreed on all counts.

What upsets me the most about the Bus Rider's Union is their willingness to misuse the concept of racism to promote their cause. "Transit racism," is an absolutely meaningless term. Metro deciding to cut bus service that was made redundant by adding a rail down the same corridor is not racism: it's common f***ing sense! The BRU's use of such loaded language where it does not apply dishonors people who have actually fought legitimate discrimination.

Their platform is ultimately the result of ignorance and shortsightedness. At times, I'd say they even stray into reverse discrimination. They have focused so much on "protecting," transit riders' rights that they get in the way of things that are of critical importance to the regional economy. The BRU's energy would be much better spent advocating for improved funding to social welfare programs that elevate people out of poverty, rather than fighting rail expansion that benefits people across the class spectrum.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #1007
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These guys are the BFF's of BRU :p



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Old November 13th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #1008
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With all the disdain I see here for the BRO, is there a TransitRidersUnion yet? If not... start one! Even if it's just a facebook page for starters, get it going. I'm sure there's plenty of Angelinos who want good transit (and don't always want it to have to be buses). Get the TRU going and upstage the ol' BRU. Learn from all the problems you see in how the BRU does it's business both internally and with regards to actual transit policies.

/it might take some time, but attention wouldn't be far behind. Media loves the cheap and easy stories to report: TRU vs BRU makes for just such a story.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #1009
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I am a serious transit rider, and combine that with me being a city planner in the making, and it will be a wonderful combination to start a Transit Riders Union... Probably it should start for both LA and SF Bay Area,
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Old November 14th, 2012, 12:52 AM   #1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
I am a serious transit rider, and combine that with me being a city planner in the making, and it will be a wonderful combination to start a Transit Riders Union... Probably it should start for both LA and SF Bay Area,

Something to this effect does exist in LA, at least:

http://transittalk.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:39 AM   #1011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams
Also add in the factor that most, if not all, measures and propositions made in the State of California, be it at the local, county, or state level, nearly always require a supermajority (66.67%) vote to pass, which is one thing I do not completely understand: it's like you will need to spend tons of advertising time, from TV and radio, to bus stop ads and newspapers, to get the message out. And by the way, it also factors in the fast-growing numbers of minorities in the state (in fact, California, in itself, is becoming a minority-majority state, with more Latinos, Asians, and Pacific Islanders than Whites) that can constitute to the supermajority voting.
To be clear, only new or higher taxes (or in this case, an extension of a tax) require a two-thirds vote. Regular measures and propositions require only a simple majority.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:49 AM   #1012
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This suburb has its priorities in check. Yes for condoms, no for trains.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:12 AM   #1013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Bus Riders Union is one of the most anachronistic, backwards and classist NGO I've ever read of their platform. They were opposed to Measure J because they are against train-based public transportation.

Their platform/argumentations goes on this line:
- bus is good because the poor ride it

- the more direct (without transfer) bus routes, the better, no matter how circuitous or how infrequent they are [they sued the transit agency there over streamlining bus routes even if service were increased]


- rail is bad because it improves the areas it serves, increasing real estate prices along the route and driving low-income out, bus is better because it is slower, and doesn't attract newcomers


- police are the enemy and policemen should be fired, and replaced by new 1000 bus drivers. They wanted LA county to stop hiring 1000 new policemen crying foul of racial profiling ant other b.s.

I'm not kidding or making this up, you can all read their absurdities on their website.

Moreover, the Bus Riders Union teamed up with other wackos such as the "Beverly Hills High School Concerned Parents" (look at a video I posted few pages back on this thread) to oppose all new rail transportation in LA area.
they are a bunch of bastards and hypocrites. there was a meeting in downtown LA a couple years ago and i saw scores of BRU members wearing their stupid yellow shirts taking the subway to the meeting. i would look at them and shake my head and they would all hang their heads in shame. All the BRU does is bullshit and is a shill organization for bus DRIVERS, not riders.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchernin View Post
To be clear, only new or higher taxes (or in this case, an extension of a tax) require a two-thirds vote. Regular measures and propositions require only a simple majority.
In that case, what would be a better way to rewrite that proposition so that it can finally pass in Los Angeles County? I mean, a tax measure like that could be passed if it is discussed in a clear, concise manner, not when some group messes up the bill's original intention and messes up the agenda.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #1015
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This suburb has its priorities in check. Yes for condoms, no for trains.
F.Y.I. The measure B, safer sex in adults films, got 56,23% for the option Yes, while The Measure J got 64,73% so, which got a higher percentage? the difference is that measure B could pass with 50% +1 of the votes.
You can check the results of the three measures voted that day here: http://rrccmain.co.la.ca.us/0012_Cou...sure_Frame.htm

And you have to take in count that measure J means somehow an increment of taxes, the other measure I guess don't.
And I don't know what is wrong with condoms anyway.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #1016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

In that case, what would be a better way to rewrite that proposition so that it can finally pass in Los Angeles County? I mean, a tax measure like that could be passed if it is discussed in a clear, concise manner, not when some group messes up the bill's original intention and messes up the agenda.
That's easy. You simply ask, "Should we continue to fix transit in Los Angeles?", and the vast majority of people will say, "YES!" Just don't bring up how you pay for it. Of course that means you're not going to have any money to do anything about it then!
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Old November 15th, 2012, 09:44 AM   #1017
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http://thesource.metro.net/2012/11/1...on-four-lines/

As the system grows, our ridership is growing exponentially. New records on 4 lines last month!
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Old November 15th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #1018
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Well done L.A.!

L.A. really has done a great job on expanding it's transit service and is proof that a car dependent city can be turned around.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 11:04 PM   #1019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan
http://thesource.metro.net/2012/11/1...on-four-lines/

As the system grows, our ridership is growing exponentially. New records on 4 lines last month!
Now that is success on a monumental scale. Hopefully, LA can catch up with its NorCal rival in making the region more transit friendly... how about making the county and region more walkable?
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Old November 17th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #1020
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So the average weekday ridership on all rail lines (metro, light rail) now is 360,000 pax /day. Still quite low for 80 km of tracks, but good considering how car-centric LA is.
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