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Old August 3rd, 2013, 02:25 AM   #1081
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Turnstiles at North Hollywood station (Red Line terminus)


http://northhollywood.patch.com/grou...out-a-tap-card
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Old August 4th, 2013, 02:44 AM   #1082
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I wonder why they didn't go with paddle gates. Those turnstile gates are so hard for people with luggage or carry shopping bags.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 03:25 AM   #1083
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Agreed.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #1084
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It is nice to see Los Angeles installing fare gates
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Old August 4th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #1085
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Do you have some sort of turnstile fetish? I mean one could possibly make a point that they are necessary (a view I do not share either though) but you are probably the only person who'd think they are a nice thing compared to no turnstiles.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Do you have some sort of turnstile fetish? I mean one could possibly make a point that they are necessary (a view I do not share either though) but you are probably the only person who'd think they are a nice thing compared to no turnstiles.
Apparently,LA Metro had a lot of troubles enforcing proof-of-payment fare collection. Not enough manpower, sporadic controls with high fines (creating a high-stakes game for evaders). There had been cases of fare checking incidents that became violent underground.

I like the idea of having areas where only passengers can go and to which all passengers are counted precisely. This allows plenty of data collection to help planing the system, and also makes it safer.

On another level, I think transportation system must not be seen just as some extension of the street, but as as separate system focused on moving people between its multiple origin/destination stations. Having some sort of physical barrier that opens upon swapping a card or phone or else is a great way to create such ambiance.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #1087
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There is nothing wrong with a fine based system and sporadic controls, if it is done properly and general safety in a city allows such a system. I also challenge the claim that its necessarily economically inferior in terms of costs vs fare evasion prevention.

Of course you can make great passanger movement statistics, big brother style, with fare gates. I give you that. It gets easier to optimize the system. But at what cost? And I am not talking necessarily about money here.

Regarding creating barriers, they are always a bad thing, but sometimes its necessary. Barriers as a puprose in themselves is something I oppose (disabled persons or people with baggies surely love barriers btw). It is one of the great things of trams that there is basically zero barrier. You just step in on the street and leave somewhere else, continuing your way on foot. Of course, a metro includes height differences, so there is more of a barrier there, but without turnstiles one can minimize that and people can move in and out faster and more efficiently.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #1088
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Fare evasion in the Rotterdam and Amsterdam metros fell from around 16-20% to around 4% after gates were put up (might not have the numbers 100% correct, but it was somewhere in that region).
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Old August 5th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #1089
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There are few major systems left with no barriers and for a good reason. The only one I can think off is Munich U-Bahn. There is just too much fare evasion particularly during rush hour when spot checks are unfeasible.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:13 PM   #1090
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every system in Germany, not just Munich
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Old August 5th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #1091
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http://la.streetsblog.org/2013/08/05...-expo-the-o-k/

The final nail in the coffin for the opposition to the Expo Line. California Supreme Court sides with Metro and the Expo Construction Authority. Construction (which never stopped anyway) will continue, with completion hopefully coming in 2015/16.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 10:00 PM   #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat23 View Post
http://la.streetsblog.org/2013/08/05...-expo-the-o-k/

The final nail in the coffin for the opposition to the Expo Line. California Supreme Court sides with Metro and the Expo Construction Authority. Construction (which never stopped anyway) will continue, with completion hopefully coming in 2015/16.


Another article: http://la.curbed.com/archives/2013/0..._extension.php

Let's get that late 2015 / early 2016 opening! Full speed ahead to Santa Monica

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Old August 5th, 2013, 10:21 PM   #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
every system in Germany, not just Munich
add Vienna to the list. I think there are no statistics about fare evasion but the Wiener Linien say that installing fare gates would cost more than they could possibly bring in. It is not only the huge installation costs (with remodelling of stations necessary in some cases) but also the more than substantial running costs of fare gates. Not to forget the reduced passanger comfort and station efficiency. Things get even worse when you inlcude busses and trams to checked entry systems. There you severly reduce line efficiency due to vastly increased passanger exchange times.

If you use all the people you'd need for controlling all the fare gates for ticket controls on the go, you can run a fairly efficient gate free system.

You see it at ticket controls in Vienna. Only few people are caught without a valid tickets. And those who are pay about 100 € for it. (an annual pass for the entire city costs 365 €, getting caught four times a year means you are paying more than that and that is a likely thing to happen if you never have a ticket)

PS: Spot checks in Vienna can occur at any time, also during rush hour. Then they are carried out with the necessary manpower. Checks are always rare but you are never safe at any time at any line, on the subway, tram or bus. On vehicle or at station exits. And in most cases they are done undercover. They reveal themselves only once doors are closed.
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; August 5th, 2013 at 10:27 PM.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 10:43 PM   #1094
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Aren't these turnstiles installed for years already?
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Old August 5th, 2013, 11:22 PM   #1095
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I fail to remember, but I think if they were in place 2 years ago already, they were not active at least. Or does my memory fool me?
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Old August 6th, 2013, 02:01 AM   #1096
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I got the very same image in mind.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 02:23 AM   #1097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat23 View Post
http://la.streetsblog.org/2013/08/05...-expo-the-o-k/

The final nail in the coffin for the opposition to the Expo Line. California Supreme Court sides with Metro and the Expo Construction Authority. Construction (which never stopped anyway) will continue, with completion hopefully coming in 2015/16.
What about the Beverly Hills High School PTO lawsuit?
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Old August 6th, 2013, 03:12 AM   #1098
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Quote:
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What about the Beverly Hills High School PTO lawsuit?
Any Beverly Hills legal actions are related to the Purple Line extension. Expo Phase 2 has nothing to do with Beverly Hills. Those NIMBYs will lose as well, but today we celebrate for Expo
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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #1099
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But how can that be? Do wealthy and powerful NIMBYs have no special rights and privileges? Whats the point of having a residence in Beverly Hills if you can not even prevent amenities and infrastructure that benefit the majority just because you say so? [/sarcasm]

Good news for LA
Things are clearly heading the right way there, even if the speed of progress could be faster.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 10:16 PM   #1100
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I was checked on the EXPO line last month. Two officers with Iphone type devices scan your TAP card. Fairly simple. Only took 10 secs for them to check my card. They kicked off about six teens on the next stop and made sure they exited the train and started writting tickets as the train pulled away.
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