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Old August 6th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #1101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
I wonder why they didn't go with paddle gates. Those turnstile gates are so hard for people with luggage or carry shopping bags.
There are usually alternate gates for people with wheelchairs to use. Getting through a turnstile with luggage is easier than the paddle gates since it isn't a full physical barrier. I've been caught in the paddle gates on the Paris Metro with luggage where I'm on one side, but my luggage is on the other with either my arm or the handle caught in the gates. With the turnstiles I can at least pull my luggage under the turnstiles.

With shopping bags, you lift them over the turnstiles. The paddle gates have a set width over their entire height, which means you'd have to turn yourself sideways to get through them if you've got a lot of bags. The alternative would be to have the gate open longer or have wider gates or have alternate gates for things like strollers and wheelchairs.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 12:21 AM   #1102
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I was checked on the EXPO line last month. Two officers with Iphone type devices scan your TAP card. Fairly simple. Only took 10 secs for them to check my card. They kicked off about six teens on the next stop and made sure they exited the train and started writting tickets as the train pulled away.
who got the tickets?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:42 PM   #1103
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Originally Posted by redspork02 View Post
I was checked on the EXPO line last month. Two officers with Iphone type devices scan your TAP card. Fairly simple. Only took 10 secs for them to check my card. They kicked off about six teens on the next stop and made sure they exited the train and started writting tickets as the train pulled away.
Are those the same officers who check trains at every terminus for bombs and stuff? I've ridden LA Metro quite a lot, but never saw anybody controlling tickets.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 03:21 PM   #1104
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I visited the Los Angeles area for a week and saw ticket checks two times.

The first time was in the morning on a Gold Line train southbound through Pasadena. I didn't see any tickets written, but several people were sent off the train at the next stop.

The second time was at Union Station on the Red/Purple Line late in the evening. The officers were waiting on the platform as our train arrive. A young man in the next seat exclaimed an expletive and ran out the door at the far end of the train. The officers made no effort to catch him. The officers did check the tickets of all the slower-moving passengers, including me.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 07:36 PM   #1105
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Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
who got the tickets?
The officers got off as well, with the teens and started writting the infractions. They had Grey LA County Sherrifs Uniforms. I dont think there the anit- terrorism/public safety unit
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Old August 9th, 2013, 02:42 AM   #1106
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LA sheriff patrols the Metro since it's a county agency.

http://www.lasdhq.org/lasd_services/...nsit_srv1.html
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Old August 12th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #1107
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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,7060571.story

Newest train to LAX will still come up short, at least at first

Upcoming Crenshaw Line will only get travelers close to LAX. Whether it will later be extended to the airport is up in the air.

By Laura J. Nelson

August 11, 2013, 6:40 p.m.
Wrapping up a Los Angeles vacation and an hourlong, two-train trek from downtown, Benjamin Levert and his slightly harried wife and daughters just wanted to check in for their flight back to France. Exiting the Metro Green Line at the Aviation/LAX station, they towed their four suitcases down a long escalator.

To a parking lot.
"Where is the terminal?" Levert asked his wife in French, looking around and raising his voice over the whoosh of overhead traffic on the 105 Freeway. "What kind of an airport is this?"

The Leverts had stumbled into what critics consider one of L.A.'s great planning failures: a $1-billion train that stops 2.5 miles from passenger terminals of the nation's third-busiest airport.

Now, a generation after the Green Line earned the nickname "the train to nowhere," planners in the midst of a multibillion-dollar rail boom are preparing to break ground on a second LAX-adjacent train that is facing similar issues — and offering a new opportunity to complete a key missing link in the region's sprawling 87.7-mile commuter rail network.

In recent decades, most major cities — including Chicago, Atlanta and Washington — have built transit lines that deliver travelers into airport terminals. New York City, Denver and San Francisco have built intra-terminal people-mover systems.

"Comparably speaking, L.A. just doesn't meet large metropolitan standards, never mind major metropolis standards," said Genevieve Giuliano, director of Metrans, a transportation research center at USC. A smoother rail link to LAX would particularly benefit tourists and business travelers, she said.

The $2.06-billion north-south Crenshaw Line will connect the Mid-City Expo Line with the South Bay's Green Line. When it opens, now slated for 2019, it will pass 1.5 miles east of the LAX terminals, with a stop at Century and Aviation boulevards. It will not have an LAX connection, other than shuttles, for up to nine more years, depending on how a series of design and financing issues are resolved.

Los Angeles World Airports and Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials are considering a direct extension of the light-rail system or a separate people-mover system that would circulate inside the airport. A decision on a route and the type of system that will be built is expected late next year. If extra money can be secured and environmental reviews finished quickly, officials say, the light-rail extension could open as soon as 2020.

But many basic questions remain unanswered, including how many people would use it and how ridership would be affected by the various options.

"People often tell us, 'Just build it, already,' " said Roderick Diaz, project director for the Airport Metro Connector. "But they all disagree on what 'it' is. It's not a simple thing to do."

The original Green Line design drafted in the 1980s included an LAX extension. But Metro officials couldn't decide where the station should go inside the terminal complex and cut the project from their 20-year plan. Ultimately, the project ran out of money when the price tag on the 20-mile Norwalk-to-Redondo Beach line tripled. Further complicating plans, the Federal Aviation Administration worried that an extension of the Green Line, which is elevated south of the airport, might interfere with airport navigation and runway sightlines.

Echoes of some of the same issues can be heard in the current debate on the Crenshaw Line. It will run east of the airport because planners can use a right-of-way from an abandoned freight train line, said Metro's Deputy Chief Executive Paul Taylor.

Preliminary Metro studies have shown that ridership would be highest if the airport link did not require passengers to make an additional transfer to get to the terminal.

"What's best is what's most seamless," Giuliano said. "I don't think people care what they're riding on, but what they really don't like is transfer, transfer, transfer."

Airport staff favors a people-mover that would extend out of the airport to a proposed 14-acre transit hub near what is now Parking Lot C. To meet the transit hub, the Crenshaw Line would have to veer west by one mile. Metro research has shown that would cost slightly more but would not increase ridership, compared with a people-mover system that would connect to the Crenshaw Line and Green Line at Aviation Boulevard, Diaz said.

Mayor Eric Garcetti recently said on social news website Reddit that a people-mover from "a close-by line" could be the most viable option.

One advantage of a people-mover system would be that stops could be included at three to five terminals, according to one environmental review. But the driverless system might need to be elevated as high as 20 feet, which could block some views of the futuristic Theme Building. The FAA has not weighed in on the design but could raise objections if construction interferes with navigational aids or views from the control tower.

Whatever option is chosen to get passengers to LAX, the added cost is estimated to be about $1 billion. Metro will shoulder more of the costs if officials opt to bring light-rail trains directly under the terminal complex, Diaz said. That would require tunneling beneath a warren of wires and utility lines. The final price tag for a people-mover could vary significantly, depending on the number of stops at airline terminals.

About a third of the required funding for the LAX connector project has been set aside from a transportation sales tax increase approved by county voters in 2008. Metro hopes the remainder can be secured from airport revenue, the federal government or a public-private partnership.

In the Aviation/LAX parking lot last week, the Levert family boarded a shuttle bus and reached the ticket counter 20 minutes later than planned. They were the only air travelers on the shuttle, surrounded by airport and airline employees in crisp navy blazers, white chef jackets and fluorescent vests.

The regular riders said they want a smoother connection. "It's cool that it will come closer. But you'll still have to go through the hassle of transferring," said Andre Garcia, 20, a baggage handler from Watts whose commute from the Willowbrook station to the central terminal takes 45 minutes.

"It's extremely inconvenient unless it goes right where you need to go," said Michael Mercado, 23, a chef at a restaurant inside the Delta terminal.

Mercado recalled riding the Green Line on his first day on the job nearly a year ago. He noticed an unfinished stub of track and concrete branching off at the LAX station, pointing toward the airport. It's a regular reminder of where the rail system doesn't yet go.

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Old August 13th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #1108
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I have never used LAX but it really looks like a messed up place, if you are not going there by car. As there are so many terminals so spread out, a people mover system looks like the best thing to go for. If that is then connected directly to the light rail station it could be still attractive. That would be like in San Francisco. I found it a bit confusing first (figuring out at which terminal you had to leave) but it was practicable.

An alternative would be a light going along the center axis between the terminals with 2-3 stations connecting to the terminals.

I guess Denver Int. Airport is a model case how a great direct rail connection of an airport can be worked out. But they have one big terminal with an airport mover shuttling people from the check in to the gates. I guess I prefer that as it means you don't have to schlepp your baggage all along.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 03:40 AM   #1109
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But Denver International Airport is a fairly recent airport (build from scratch in the 1990s). I agree that the system there works great: you don't haul luggage around the terminals. I think Atlanta has a similar system (but I never flew there).
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Old August 15th, 2013, 03:31 AM   #1110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think Atlanta has a similar system (but I never flew there).
Atlanta's rebuilt airport pretty well set the pattern for all subsequent large airports.

Back on topic: the Transit Politic has a good article (actually more than one) about this. To me, the obvious thing to do is to build a people mover that connects the nine (!) terminals and various other airport and airport-related destinations to each other and to transit lines (not just light rail, but various bus services, too) and avoid bogging down non-airport light rail riders with a time-consuming slog through LAX.

Last edited by Tom 958; August 15th, 2013 at 04:05 AM.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 07:46 AM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
Atlanta's rebuilt airport pretty well set the pattern for all subsequent large airports.

Back on topic: the Transit Politic has a good article (actually more than one) about this. To me, the obvious thing to do is to build a people mover that connects the nine (!) terminals and various other airport and airport-related destinations to each other and to transit lines (not just light rail, but various bus services, too) and avoid bogging down non-airport light rail riders with a time-consuming slog through LAX.
exactly. that is clearly the best option as then the green line can be extended as can the crenshaw line.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 07:47 AM   #1112
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Speaking of airport connectivity in Southern California, ground was recently broken on a second Metrolink station for Bob Hope Airport in the city of Burbank. This airport is currently served by Amtrak and Metrolink Ventura County Line on its south side. The new station is being built on the north side of the airport and will serve Metrolink Antelope Valley Line.



It seems the name of the new station will be Bob Hope Airport-Hollywood Way Metrolink Station, although both Metrolink stations are close to Hollywood Way.

The terminal is in the SE corner of the airport, so passengers coming from Amtrak or Metrolink VC Line can board a shuttle or take a quick five-minute walk across the parking lot to the terminal. The new Metrolink AV Line station will be in the northeast corner of the airport, and there will be a bus shuttle to transport passengers the one mile to the terminal.

Bob Hope Airport also has a free shuttle to the North Hollywood Red Line/Orange Line station and the downtown Burbank Metrolink Station (which is on both the Metrolink AC and VC Line). This small airport has much better connectivity than LAX.

Here is the Metrolink press release:
http://www.metrolinktrains.com/news/...ws_id/857.html
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Old August 24th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #1113
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http://www.myfoxla.com/story/2323064...mprove-traffic

Quote:
The idea of a subway/expressway tunnel(s) under the 405 freeway has been out there for about 6 months when it was presented to the METRO Board as one of several possible plans that could be done to improve dramatically 405 traffic. Ever since METRO's Chief of Real Estate Roger Moliere says the project has been fast-tracked. So much so, that Moliere tells me that the transit agency could be looking for funding partners within a year. He also says work could begin within 2 to 3 years. To build a tunnel or two of them under the freeway it could take 4 to 5 years....

Moliere tells me the first phase would be through the 10 mile Sepulveda Pass, but it would eventually be expanded from Sylmar, in the San Fernando Valley, all the way through to LAX.
The article doesn't specify, but Phase I probably runs from the Orange Line to the the future Wilshire/Westwood station. Maybe a station at UCLA if we're really lucky.

Of course, it's yet to be seen what type of funding can be found in the private sector. Still, fingers crossed!
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Old August 24th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #1114
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Metro rules at Union Station

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Old August 25th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #1115
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That's ridiculous
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Old August 27th, 2013, 12:29 AM   #1116
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I have never used LAX but it really looks like a messed up place, if you are not going there by car. As there are so many terminals so spread out, a people mover system looks like the best thing to go for.
Actually it is not all that spread out. Recently I walked with luggage from the Tom Bradley Terminal (which is the one at the end of the U shapped road), to the United check-in which is about the furtherest away and it took all of 5 minutes.

Also if going say from the United terminal to one on the other side of the U road you can easily walk straight across rather than all the way around.

Also bear in mind that most people don't change airlines in LAX, except maybe from foreign carriers, who mostly use Tom Bradley to domestic carriers, so not much need to walk between terminals anyway.
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Old August 28th, 2013, 02:07 AM   #1117
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True LAX is a connection HUB for international flights, all of the happens mostly in TBT.

I find LAX easier to navigate that Dallas or Houston, even with their people movers once in the terminals it's quite a nightmare,
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Old August 28th, 2013, 02:12 AM   #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redspork02 View Post
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,7060571.story

Newest train to LAX will still come up short, at least at first

Upcoming Crenshaw Line will only get travelers close to LAX. Whether it will later be extended to the airport is up in the air.

By Laura J. Nelson

August 11, 2013, 6:40 p.m.
Wrapping up a Los Angeles vacation and an hourlong, two-train trek from downtown, Benjamin Levert and his slightly harried wife and daughters just wanted to check in for their flight back to France. Exiting the Metro Green Line at the Aviation/LAX station, they towed their four suitcases down a long escalator.

To a parking lot.
"Where is the terminal?" Levert asked his wife in French, looking around and raising his voice over the whoosh of overhead traffic on the 105 Freeway. "What kind of an airport is this?"

The Leverts had stumbled into what critics consider one of L.A.'s great planning failures: a $1-billion train that stops 2.5 miles from passenger terminals of the nation's third-busiest airport.

Now, a generation after the Green Line earned the nickname "the train to nowhere," planners in the midst of a multibillion-dollar rail boom are preparing to break ground on a second LAX-adjacent train that is facing similar issues — and offering a new opportunity to complete a key missing link in the region's sprawling 87.7-mile commuter rail network.

In recent decades, most major cities — including Chicago, Atlanta and Washington — have built transit lines that deliver travelers into airport terminals. New York City, Denver and San Francisco have built intra-terminal people-mover systems.

"Comparably speaking, L.A. just doesn't meet large metropolitan standards, never mind major metropolis standards," said Genevieve Giuliano, director of Metrans, a transportation research center at USC. A smoother rail link to LAX would particularly benefit tourists and business travelers, she said.

The $2.06-billion north-south Crenshaw Line will connect the Mid-City Expo Line with the South Bay's Green Line. When it opens, now slated for 2019, it will pass 1.5 miles east of the LAX terminals, with a stop at Century and Aviation boulevards. It will not have an LAX connection, other than shuttles, for up to nine more years, depending on how a series of design and financing issues are resolved.

Los Angeles World Airports and Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials are considering a direct extension of the light-rail system or a separate people-mover system that would circulate inside the airport. A decision on a route and the type of system that will be built is expected late next year. If extra money can be secured and environmental reviews finished quickly, officials say, the light-rail extension could open as soon as 2020.

But many basic questions remain unanswered, including how many people would use it and how ridership would be affected by the various options.

"People often tell us, 'Just build it, already,' " said Roderick Diaz, project director for the Airport Metro Connector. "But they all disagree on what 'it' is. It's not a simple thing to do."

The original Green Line design drafted in the 1980s included an LAX extension. But Metro officials couldn't decide where the station should go inside the terminal complex and cut the project from their 20-year plan. Ultimately, the project ran out of money when the price tag on the 20-mile Norwalk-to-Redondo Beach line tripled. Further complicating plans, the Federal Aviation Administration worried that an extension of the Green Line, which is elevated south of the airport, might interfere with airport navigation and runway sightlines.

Echoes of some of the same issues can be heard in the current debate on the Crenshaw Line. It will run east of the airport because planners can use a right-of-way from an abandoned freight train line, said Metro's Deputy Chief Executive Paul Taylor.

Preliminary Metro studies have shown that ridership would be highest if the airport link did not require passengers to make an additional transfer to get to the terminal.

"What's best is what's most seamless," Giuliano said. "I don't think people care what they're riding on, but what they really don't like is transfer, transfer, transfer."

Airport staff favors a people-mover that would extend out of the airport to a proposed 14-acre transit hub near what is now Parking Lot C. To meet the transit hub, the Crenshaw Line would have to veer west by one mile. Metro research has shown that would cost slightly more but would not increase ridership, compared with a people-mover system that would connect to the Crenshaw Line and Green Line at Aviation Boulevard, Diaz said.

Mayor Eric Garcetti recently said on social news website Reddit that a people-mover from "a close-by line" could be the most viable option.

One advantage of a people-mover system would be that stops could be included at three to five terminals, according to one environmental review. But the driverless system might need to be elevated as high as 20 feet, which could block some views of the futuristic Theme Building. The FAA has not weighed in on the design but could raise objections if construction interferes with navigational aids or views from the control tower.

Whatever option is chosen to get passengers to LAX, the added cost is estimated to be about $1 billion. Metro will shoulder more of the costs if officials opt to bring light-rail trains directly under the terminal complex, Diaz said. That would require tunneling beneath a warren of wires and utility lines. The final price tag for a people-mover could vary significantly, depending on the number of stops at airline terminals.

About a third of the required funding for the LAX connector project has been set aside from a transportation sales tax increase approved by county voters in 2008. Metro hopes the remainder can be secured from airport revenue, the federal government or a public-private partnership.

In the Aviation/LAX parking lot last week, the Levert family boarded a shuttle bus and reached the ticket counter 20 minutes later than planned. They were the only air travelers on the shuttle, surrounded by airport and airline employees in crisp navy blazers, white chef jackets and fluorescent vests.

The regular riders said they want a smoother connection. "It's cool that it will come closer. But you'll still have to go through the hassle of transferring," said Andre Garcia, 20, a baggage handler from Watts whose commute from the Willowbrook station to the central terminal takes 45 minutes.

"It's extremely inconvenient unless it goes right where you need to go," said Michael Mercado, 23, a chef at a restaurant inside the Delta terminal.

Mercado recalled riding the Green Line on his first day on the job nearly a year ago. He noticed an unfinished stub of track and concrete branching off at the LAX station, pointing toward the airport. It's a regular reminder of where the rail system doesn't yet go.

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Yeah, the thing is that LAX's master plan will take years to implement, and it'll be a waste of money to put a Metro station "somewhere" when the plans for the people mover will move the boarding of passengers to, probably, Lot C, or somewhere out there.

So once LAX knows what they will do, then they can coordinate with Metro for a streamline connection. Meanwhile.....shuttles it is..which are not that awful btw.
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Old August 28th, 2013, 04:35 AM   #1119
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The Green Line and upcoming Crenshaw Line are essentially flawed methods of providing airport rail access to tourists/travelers. The whole service pattern of light rail (frequent stops, some street running, lack of express services) is not optimal for these customers, who need rapid and direct transport to/from the airport. For airport employees it's ok, as it replaces or supplements the bus services which serve the communities where they reside.

Ideally, you have a heavy rail station (s) directly underground and adjacent to the terminals, and express services patterned after S-bahn or RER going to multiple destinations county-wide as well as to Union Station and Orange County. Heavy rail also leaves open the option of running some HSR services into the airport, should that system ever get built. The ROW exists for this service, in the form of the abandoned AT&SF Harbor Sub.

That said, we're talking about America, so the light rail it will be. Something is better than nothing.
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Old August 29th, 2013, 11:39 AM   #1120
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I am an Australian tourist currently on holiday in Los Angeles and I could not agree more that LAX needs a direct (and let me emphasize that - DIRECT) rail connection to downtown Los Angeles. I made the journey from LAX to Hollywood via the Green, Blue and Red lines....now that's a journey I won't forget....90 minutes.....many, many kilometres travelled that were not necessary.

On a positive note I find the LA light rail system much better than anticipated....the trains are classified as trams by the nay-sayers, well I say call them trains...I think the term "light metro" is the most appropriate.
The train carriages are much wider than what I consider "trams" plus 3 car sets are not uncommon...again not tram like....the stations are spaced widely apart (not tram like at all) enabling the trains to reach speeds of 80kmh(?) and grade separation has been employed at busy intersections to speed up the journey.
The stations are well designed....would just like some more information about next trains.

Keep up the good work LACTMA......someone has to fight the fight in this car -plagued metropolis!
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