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Old February 23rd, 2014, 01:05 AM   #1221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

Isn't that something created in the Bay Area between Gilroy and San Francisco?
Yes there is, called Caltrain. Union Pacific owns most of the trackage rights, in which it has been divested to the Transbay Joint Powers Authority (TJPA), in collaboration with the San Mateo County Transportation District (the owner of SamTrans) for the portion between San Francisco and Tamien in San Jose, and UP owns the trackage between Tamien and Gilroy. Formerly, Caltrain was operated by Amtrak; however, it is now operated in conjunction between the TJPA, San Mateo County Transportation District, and Metropolitan Transportation Commission (MTC).

On the other hand, Metrolink is operated by Amtrak, with the trackage rights owned by the Southern California Regional Rail Authority (SCRRA), divested from ATSF, another major railway operator.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 01:59 AM   #1222
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I would say the Caltrain is a good example to use to promote the infamous LA-LV bull-train as ridership has increased over the past few years. It would be great for people not brave enough to go the I-15 route. If only the money was available...
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 12:57 PM   #1223
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So the city never envisaged mass transit before the 1990's, Wouah !
Unlike many European cities, where public transportation is the very basis of urban transportation, L.A. and many US cities just did the opposite, but for good sake, it's slowly changing now.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 01:21 PM   #1224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
^you got it.

metro rail, metrolink started in the early 90s.

then there was the mythical caltrain in the early-mid 80s.
It's really hard to wrap my thoughts around the fact, that 3.5 mln first-world city could exist without rail transit, even knowing all that stuff about low density and highways.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 01:21 PM   #1225
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Several US cities began construction of metro systems in the 1970s. Some were great successes and evolved into extensive networks, such as San Francisco (BART) and Washignton, D.C. Others suffered from funding issues and never evolved to meet their full potential, such as Atlanta (MARTA), Miami, and Baltimore.

The situation that Los Angeles is now in is due to starting late and choosing a transit mode for many lines that is better suited to a much smaller city. Try to imagine BART or the Washington Metro built as light rail with three-car trains operating on city streets.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 09:20 PM   #1226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
It's really hard to wrap my thoughts around the fact, that 3.5 mln first-world city could exist without rail transit, even knowing all that stuff about low density and highways.
For LA...and cities on similar size, It is the sheer amount of square-miles that puts the cost for such projects at a tremendous amount of money. Keep in mind, LA is also very dense with infrastructure, so you have zoning and other issues in building over a 5-story condo complex housing 500 people.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 07:01 AM   #1227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman Kris™ View Post
I would say the Caltrain is a good example to use to promote the infamous LA-LV bull-train as ridership has increased over the past few years. It would be great for people not brave enough to go the I-15 route. If only the money was available...
The biggest competitor for that one would be air services since LAX–LAS is served by multiple airlines on multiple daily frequencies, and the flight prices are pretty cheap. If a train service between LA and Vegas would be done, the train service should be operated as a joint collaboration between Amtrak, Metrolink, Southern California. Regional Rail Authority, and RTC Southern Nevada (along with other smaller partners) to make the service worthwhile. A major hurdle for this one would be the rail alignment beyond Los Angeles and the climate along the route (desert, with huge swings in temperature, along with Santa Ana Winds factored in).

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
So the city never envisaged mass transit before the 1990's, Wouah !
Unlike many European cities, where public transportation is the very basis of urban transportation, L.A. and many US cities just did the opposite, but for good sake, it's slowly changing now.
Well, LA wasn't the only one that built much more freeways... Many other large cities built around the freeway first before mass transit came along, like Houston, Dallas, Detroit, Phoenix, and many Southern cities. The freeway boom resulted in massive sprawls, in which mass transit success can be difficult to gauge initially until such adjustments (e.g. establishing a regular line alignment, establishing large stops, developing a comprehensive network with consistent schedules, etc) are done. Los Angeles has had a different mass transit agency before LA Metro came along, but I will look up into its history to see how it fared.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:41 AM   #1228
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Quote:
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What passenger railway in this country actually GETS a profiting patronage?
MTA NYC System I would have to imagine..
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:45 AM   #1229
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[QUOTE=fieldsofdreams;111701137]The biggest competitor for that one would be air services since LAX–LAS is served by multiple airlines on multiple daily frequencies, and the flight prices are pretty cheap. If a train service between LA and Vegas would be done, the train service should be operated as a joint collaboration between Amtrak, Metrolink, Southern California. Regional Rail Authority, and RTC Southern Nevada (along with other smaller partners) to make the service worthwhile. A major hurdle for this one would be the rail alignment beyond Los Angeles and the climate along the route (desert, with huge swings in temperature, along with Santa Ana Winds factored in).

I would agree. That is the only way to fund the project, let alone promote ridership and making it worthwhile as you said. Rather small beer to the airline industry, you are so correct.
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Old February 28th, 2014, 12:19 AM   #1230
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http://www.sbsun.com/government-and-...san-bernardino

Two major transit projects break ground in San Bernardino


Officials participate in two groundbreaking ceremonies for the extended Metrolink service and passenger rail service at the future site of the San Bernardino Transit Center near E Street and Rialto Avenue in San Bernardino Tuesday. Rachel Luna — Staff Photographer

By Ryan Hagen, The Sun
POSTED: 02/25/14, 8:00 PM PST

SAN BERNARDINO >> The significance of the two transportation projects that broke ground Tuesday was reflected in the dignitaries from regional, state and federal agencies who came to celebrate — and by the absence of the color guard that was meant to be there.

They got caught in traffic. The flag itself arrived on time by taking public transportation.

Freeways are growing increasingly congested and difficult, said Mayor Pat Morris, who slipped in frequent jokes and anecdotes as master of ceremonies. And the field where he stood — a century ago a railroad maintenance and repair yard, Tuesday decorated with buses and vehicles form the various mass transit modes that will intersect at the transit center there once construction is complete — showed the path forward.

“(It’s) visual testimony that the economic engine of this city and this region was once the rail industry,” Morris said. “...Our presence here is testimony that our future and our economy’s future is tied to transportation.”

The beginning of construction on two different projects was marked in one ceremony Tuesday: the intermodal transit center and a one-mile extension of the Metrolink line from the Santa Fe Depot to that center.

Together, the projects are intended to allow someone to easily transfer among the different services that will meet there — 13 local Omnitrans buses, the sbX Bus Rapid Transit service, Victor Valley Transit Authority buses, Mountain Area Rapid Transit Authority buses and Metrolink trains — and easily travel without needing a car.

That, in turn, is expected to facilitate transit-oriented development.

The $128 million projects came about through a partnership including the Federal Transit Administration, San Bernardino Associated Governments (SanBAG), Omnitrans, Metrolink and the city of San Bernardino, and representatives of many of those agencies spoke about how they expected the project to help the region and the city.

And in what Morris pointed to as another example of people coming together for progress, all seven City Council members as well as the city attorney attended. Mayor-elect Carey Davis was in Los Angeles for a mediation session as part of the city’s bankruptcy process.

Supervisor James Ramos said the project, as well as the coming extension of Metrolink to the University of Redlands, would be a boon for the region.

“This is truly a historic day,” he said. “It marks the beginning of a new era.”

Other attendees didn’t make their way to the dais but brought attention to some of what is being lost as a result of coming construction.

That includes the building where Allgood Shower Door operated for about the last 40 years and that was built in the 1910s, said Bruce Hefftner, co-owner of the company.

“I don’t want to be negative — I still think it’s a good project,” Hefftner said, who wasn’t sure what the longterm effect will be but did see a decline in business after moving to Waterman Avenue south of Mill. “We’ll survive. It’s partly too bad though.”
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Old February 28th, 2014, 12:42 AM   #1231
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What do you think of building some monorails in Los Angeles?
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Old February 28th, 2014, 02:55 AM   #1232
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Monorail would be a great solution, but it's not going to happen. Monorail would offer higher capacity than light rail at less cost than a metro, but monorail can't even get past the initial screening of transit modes to be considered in an environmental impact study because it is considered proprietary technology. No two monorail manufacturers offer trains that can run on each other's guideway. Even if that hurdle were overcome, the high visibility of an elevated monorail line would bring out an army of NIMBYs. I think we will continue to see monorail pursued in Asia and South America, but not in the United States, Canada, and Europe.
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Old February 28th, 2014, 05:07 AM   #1233
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not to mention its not compatible with the rest of the system and would require its own livery and maintenance yards
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Old February 28th, 2014, 01:03 PM   #1234
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Equipment interoperability between lines is an argument of convenience. The Blue, Green, and Gold light rail lines were each built with unique signalling equipment. Until the arrival of the new light rail cars from AnsaldoBreda, each operated with unique equipment. Of course, there was never any consideration that the Red/Purple metro line would operate with the same vehicles as the light rail lines, and the proposed downtown streetcar would also have different equipment.

This situation is not unique. Boston and Philadelphia both have multiple metro and light rail lines that each operate with unique equipment. Even many cities that have just light rail are now adding streetcar routes that require dedicated eqiupment.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 10:50 PM   #1235
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Using incompatible systems is however not a feature but a bug. Of course there can be good reasons for it, but unless there are good reasons for it, there is really no point in making incompetible systems just for the sake of it.

I don't see the big selling point of monorail that would justify yet another totally different system instead of using one of the already existing ones: metro, light rail or even BRT.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 12:22 AM   #1236
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Quote:
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not to mention its not compatible with the rest of the system and would require its own livery and maintenance yards
Why would it require its own livery?
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 01:20 AM   #1237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Using incompatible systems is however not a feature but a bug. Of course there can be good reasons for it, but unless there are good reasons for it, there is really no point in making incompetible systems just for the sake of it.

I don't see the big selling point of monorail that would justify yet another totally different system instead of using one of the already existing ones: metro, light rail or even BRT.
I should mention the bumpy ride of monorails. I have yet to ride a monorail that is a smooth ride.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 02:37 AM   #1238
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I should mention the bumpy ride of monorails. I have yet to ride a monorail that is a smooth ride.
It flies as softly as a cloud...
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:48 AM   #1239
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I should mention the bumpy ride of monorails. I have yet to ride a monorail that is a smooth ride.
Hm, no that's not fair. I've been on a number of monorails and I thought the Chiba and Tama monorails were fine in terms of ride quality. I'd say they're no less bumpy than a rubber-tyred metro.
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 08:26 AM   #1240
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What do you think of building some monorails in Los Angeles?
Monorails can be a good option to build over time, especially in the outer areas of Los Angeles County (e.g. Wilshire Blvd, Sunset Blvd, Sepulveda Blvd, Manchester Ave) since those require much less space than an underground metro or mostly ground level streetcar service. It can even work as a replacement for many of LA Metro's more popular services, as well as a complement to its BRT lines (Orange and Silver), and it could help spur land value prices along such corridors.

The biggest challenge to operating the monorail would be cost overruns, especially in terms of maintaining trains and track maintenance. The design may be sleek and modern in nature, but one has to factor in how many monorail trains will be needed to operate the system on a frequent basis, as well as the costs of operating separate yards just for the monorail services (on top of what LA Metro operates for its bus, light rail, and subway services), and the estimated return on investment (ROI) in the long run, especially in terms of how much economic activity it can produce for the neighborhoods it will serve. Not to mention road closures (that could mean long detours for buses and vehicles), NIMBYs along such corridors, and a different fare structure (higher fare than a bus or a light rail ride) that could make a difference in its success...

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Why would it require its own livery?
It would require its own livery because it is a unique form of mass transit operating in Los Angeles. It provides a unique character to a growing transit-friendly community that it deserves its own stripes...
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