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Old January 25th, 2007, 08:32 AM   #121
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Metros of any kind are gonna be hard to make profitable and efficient/viable in LA

Complete nonsense.
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Old January 25th, 2007, 08:44 AM   #122
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I'm not sure exactly what he or she means by efficient or viable but there aren't many urban rail systems around the world that are profitable, that is where revenue from fares and other sources exceeds operating costs over any given period of time e.g. a day, week, month or year. Even densely populated cities usually have to subsidise their rail systems in order for them to stay in operation.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 01:07 AM   #123
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No American city has ever built a light rail system that has made a profit (i.e. fares have both paid for the capital investment and operating costs. The reason for this is our cities are too decentralized. The density is not high enough for any system to be truely financially viable. As a local society, when we vote yes on a light rail line, we're in effect stating we believe that the benefit of a line is greater than its financial costs.

That said, I know nothing of New York's subway system and the profitability there. New York is the one American city that I think could possibly make a true profit on mass transit fares.

Portland Oregon has touted it's light rail system as "paying for itself" which means only that the fares have quickly recovered capital costs, but there too, the operating costs are not covered and must be subsidized by taxpayers. Incidentally, their yellow line was the most cost-effective to build due in big part to evironmentally friendly and recyclable construction techniques.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 01:32 AM   #124
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The line looks like it'll be nice but you'd think that LA would order more stylish cars. I mean, considering that it's LA, arguably the style capital of the world, and that they're being made by Ansaldobreda, an Italian company with a reputation of making sleeker trains, it's suprising that they look like a NYC subway train with a nose. The ones they designed for San Fransisco in the 90's were far better looking, even if they were technically unsound.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 02:11 AM   #125
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I think that LA metro lacks of a proper connection with LAX since the station "Aviation" is actually too far from the terminals. Is there any plan to connect the airport to the green line?
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Old January 26th, 2007, 03:09 AM   #126
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I think that LA metro lacks of a proper connection with LAX since the station "Aviation" is actually too far from the terminals. Is there any plan to connect the airport to the green line?
Yes there are, the green line will be extended to LAX and beyond.

here is a map made by Damien Goodman that shows what LA could look like in the next 15 - 20 years. Some of these lines are already built, some are being built right now, and the rest are planned.

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Old January 26th, 2007, 03:12 AM   #127
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The twin tunnels of the Eastside extension are now complete. Btw, IMO, the Gold Line is one of the best looking LRT lines in the US.
The tunnels are drilled, but they're far from complete...they need the concrete, track and electrical infrastructure installed now.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 03:15 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladisimo View Post

That train looks so stoic and depressing...

Metros of any kind are gonna be hard to make profitable and efficient/viable in LA
So in other words, you really want the Metro to fail in Los Angeles? That sounds very obvious from you, you have some sort of hatred for Los Angeles and its people.

No rail system in the world has been profitable.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 05:58 AM   #129
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the one problem with public transport in LA is the fact it has so many 'Downtowns'. Yes there is downtown proper, but there is also the wilshire district, Centruy City, Sherman Oaks, Burbank, Glendale, LBC.... all arugeably their own downtown areas. Connecting them is a challenge for any system, and the fact LA dosent want elevated metro lines (although confusing to me) means we build slowly. Its just the way LA is, but seeing as how we already have the buisest light rail line in the US (blue line) i would think the rest of the LA basin would hop on board and start riding the rails once they are built.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 03:01 AM   #130
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I can understand why we don't want elevated lines. After the old mass transit system failed, the county opted for freeways. So, we were stuck for decades with towering structures which destroyed communities and wiped out the old look of a neighborhood (although personally I like freeways, but let's not delve into that). Residents are tired of seeing transportation structures, and now they want subways. Think about this: the 710 extension: underground. Red Line: underground. Gold Blue and Expo line: use existing ROW's. Downtown connector: everyone wants it underground.

Here is the perfect way to pass a public transportation bill in Los Angeles. Raise the sales tax, and stipulate that all new rail lines will be built UNDERGROUND!
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Old January 27th, 2007, 07:14 PM   #131
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Quote:
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i think those grey trains will be sexy riding into santa monica, just gotta wait for a while.
This is the train that needs to reach Santa Monica:



The mayor is trying to make it happen but you may have to wait a lot longer.

The Expo Line will be a useful addition and will serve neighborhoods south of I-10 that the Red Line subway won't reach; however, the Expo Line is expected to be at capacity the day that it reaches Santa Monica. The route between Santa Monica and the downtown area of Los Angeles calls for a system that is faster and has higher capacity. Also, the Red Line will connect the secondary downtown areas that exist in Westwood and Century City.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 08:34 PM   #132
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How likely the EXPO Line will reach Santa Monica? I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.

How do the Santa Monica residents approve for this?

LA is a great city, but the public transportation sucks. The communities are so segregated; rich vs. poor like the water and oil don't mix.

Laws and the judicial system that allows local residents to gain full control to vote out anything disadvantaged to the community will always hinder the mass transit system to get fully integrated.

Maybe the exorbitant gasoline price will help LA become a more pleasant place to live after all.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #133
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^ Topper, the Santa Monica Residents are all for the Expo and in fact they welcome rail and are preparing for it. The Expo phase two will be completed sometime between 2012 - 2014, but it could be sooner now that we have the bond money. also, the red line down Wilshire has been renamed teh purple line and that line is building momentum and the bond money will be used for that as well. The mayor is thinking about floating a city bond or tax to pay for numerous lines at the same time. this is a great time for LA rail. we have two lines currently under construction and in the next 5 years, i wouldn't be surprised to see 5 more under construction.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 11:32 PM   #134
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That sounds promising. Hope the EXPO Line will be underground all the way through.

So how much funds did they raise for this Line by selling bond?
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Old January 28th, 2007, 12:58 AM   #135
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That sounds promising. Hope the EXPO Line will be underground all the way through.

So how much funds did they raise for this Line by selling bond?
the expo line is above ground, but its mostly grade separated. the bond was a statewide bond that was voted on in November. LA will get around 2 billion or more for mass transit. that would be enough to extend Expo to Santa Monica, for the green Line to LAX and the Downtown Connector, however, no one knows which projects will get that money. My hope is that the Purple line extension to Westwood gets the bulk of the money as well as the Downtown Connector. also, that is not the only money that we have to depend on for construction. there are other sources that our mayor is trying to tap into to get as much as possible built, and built asap.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 08:15 AM   #136
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Too bad that the EXPO Line won't be underground. From what I have heard, the cost to build a subway line is relatively comparable to the elevated system these days. But I'd be glad as long as they build something. LA Traffic is in crisis.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 12:49 AM   #137
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Too bad that the EXPO Line won't be underground. From what I have heard, the cost to build a subway line is relatively comparable to the elevated system these days. But I'd be glad as long as they build something. LA Traffic is in crisis.
A small part of the Exposition Line will be underground, underneath the corner of Figueroa St. and Exposition Blvd.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 04:24 AM   #138
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Has anyone discussed the importance of a line from from Burbank/Glendale to downtown? I know it's a part of Damien's map, and it would have been done by the Yellow Line, but what is Metro doing about it now?
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Old January 30th, 2007, 04:30 AM   #139
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Has anyone discussed the importance of a line from from Burbank/Glendale to downtown? I know it's a part of Damien's map, and it would have been done by the Yellow Line, but what is Metro doing about it now?
The MTA studies the possibilty of it; it would share the route with the Gold line until the LA river and then go north to Glendale/Burbank. The alignment was not determined, but it would either duplicate the Metrolink route (with more stops) or go up Brand Blvd and Glenoaks (just like the old Pacific Electric red cars did). The plans were put on hold after the MTA's big budget shortfall in the mid-90s.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 04:37 AM   #140
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Shouldn't Metro have a budget surplus with the new bond?
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