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Old June 5th, 2015, 10:27 PM   #1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
So I've been tinkering for a while with a version of a future Metro map that incorporates the best ideas from Nick Andert's 2040 Metro map and Yuquiao Zhao's recent proposal (previous page), while adding in a couple thoughts of my own to bind them together -- swapping Orange and Blue, HRT to Glendale and the Artesia/605 LRT among them.

Thicker lines indicate HRT, while thinner lines indicate LRT. You'll notice that some of the lines go very far -- the idea is, a bit like BART, to make the HRT lines do the heavy lifting over long distances, and several of them would run alongside Metrolink commuter rail lines (for instance, out to Ontario or down to Santa Ana.)

I haven't put in the finishing touches, such as the Metrolink lines and connections, but I think it's more or less complete.

Would love your thoughts.



EDIT: Adjusted the area around the Alvarado alignment a bit, and added Adams, Glendale Blvd and Grand/Cesar Chavez stations.
Excellent work! Makes me want to save that image for my own analysis!

And by the way, have you considered developing a stronger BRT map to augment your LRT and HRT map? I would love to see more of your ideas to help LA become more transit friendly.
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Old June 5th, 2015, 11:06 PM   #1722
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Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Excellent work! Makes me want to save that image for my own analysis!

And by the way, have you considered developing a stronger BRT map to augment your LRT and HRT map? I would love to see more of your ideas to help LA become more transit friendly.
Thanks! Totally understand the impulse, I've got it stuck up on my corkboard and am always wondering about this fix or that revision... It's enough to make you crazy, but a fun pastime when it's quiet at the office.

I've thought about BRT, and I think the next phase will be to incorporate the Metrolink and Amtrak lines, as well as adding in some BRT to stitch things together. But I'm not entirely sure where to put all of them.

The Artesia/605 "Tan Line" would actually be a good candidate to make BRT instead of LRT, since it's shuttling between the outer reaches of the county.

One possibility I'm a little in love with is a BRT running along the 118, 210, 710 and Seaside Freeways from Moorpark or Chatsworth to Pasadena, through whatever tunnel/connector we wind up with to close "the gap," and all the way down to Long Beach and San Pedro.

And there are a number of possibilities for more East/West lines in the middle or northern portion of the SFV (maybe Roscoe?), and in South LA (Manchester, Rosecrans, Del Amo, etc.)...

But I'm not married to anything, and honestly know less about the functioning of BRT or any of Metro's plans for it, so let me know what you're thinking!
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Old June 6th, 2015, 12:24 PM   #1723
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Purple Line extension Section 2 video:

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Old June 6th, 2015, 01:47 PM   #1724
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Things are getting expensive nowadays. Looks like for another business district in the city.
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Old June 29th, 2015, 08:40 PM   #1725
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A little "Diddy" about Stan and his LA Commute......

Fear of Longer Commutes puts Pressure on US Cities

June 29th, 2015 by Associated Press

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/l...cities/311997/

At 4:35 a.m. each weekday, Stan Paul drives out of his Southern California suburb with 10 passengers in a van, headed to his job as an undergraduate counselor at the University of California, Los Angeles. Some 80 miles and 90 minutes later, the van-poolers finally arrive to start their workday.

On the return trip, Los Angeles' infamously snarled traffic often stretches their afternoon commute to three hours. Since Paul joined in 2001, he has spent roughly 1 1/2 years aboard the van pool and traveled far enough to complete a round trip to the moon.

"These supercommuters, they don't just give you a day's work," he said. "They give you their lives."

Transportation experts say Paul's long journey offers a warning for the future, when traffic rivaling a major holiday might someday be the norm for many more Americans.

"If we don't change, in 2045, the transportation system that powered our rise as a nation will instead slow us down," the U.S. Department of Transportation said in report earlier this year titled "Beyond Traffic."

"Transit systems will be so backed up that riders will wonder not just when they will get to work, but if they will get there at all," the report said. "At the airports, and on the highway, every day will be like Thanksgiving is today."

That prediction has opened a growing divide between cities such as L.A. that have been making huge investments in new transit options and other regions that have been unable or unwilling to get ahead of the crisis, including the fast-growing South and Southwest.

The issue extends beyond big cities. Americans living in more sparsely populated areas are affected every time they head to cities for ball games, business, shopping or air travel.

To avoid this slow-motion catastrophe, the nation would have to act decisively — and soon.

Avoiding past mistakes

In many fast-growing metro areas, transportation officials are trying to avoid becoming the next L.A., Houston or Atlanta — places struggling to undo previous decisions that led to mind-numbing, time-wasting, fuel-burning traffic jams.

Faced with traffic congestion so notorious that it has become a cultural touchstone in movies and comedy repertoires, L.A. has embarked on a transportation building binge funded largely by a sales tax voters passed in 2008.

New rail lines are extending to Beverly Hills, the airport and other places that haven't had such service in decades. Regional officials call the $14 billion being spent on transit and new freeway lanes the nation's largest public-works project.

In some ways, the building boom harkens back to the region's past. Until the rise of the automobile, the city offered an extensive network of streetcars. The current rail renaissance is possible because planners preserved old rights of way, allowing them to build new lines where old tracks had been ripped out or buried under concrete decades ago.

Similar challenges loom over the Atlanta metro region, where population growth by 2040 is expected to result in a daily average congestion speed of 18.8 mph — about 10 mph slower than today.

Some cities have turned to bus rapid-transit systems, which give buses the right of way, permission to operate at faster speeds and sometimes their own lanes. Those systems are already in place in Boston, Cleveland, Miami, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh and Seattle.

Seeking consensus

Elected officials and transportation professionals generally agree on the nation's intensifying traffic congestion but are divided about how to address it.

The Obama administration leans heavily toward getting people out of their vehicles, a solution preferred by many urban planners. New highway lanes aren't enough, the theory goes, because they will simply attract drivers who had been taking other routes and encourage more sprawl. Soon congestion will be as bad as ever.

One alternative is to encourage people to trade suburban amenities for more densely developed neighborhoods where they can easily take transit, walk or bike to jobs, stores and entertainment.

"As the population surges, we're going to have more bottlenecks, so giving people another option is really important," Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx said in an interview. Rail transit can be a release valve for highway congestion, he said, taking enough vehicles off the road to help traffic move more smoothly.

Although ridership for trains and buses is at a 50-year peak, it remains only a tiny fraction of all trips nationally.

Conservative lawmakers in Washington and many state capitals tend to advocate road building, which better serves their primarily suburban and rural constituents. They question the effectiveness of enlarging big-city rail systems, which typically carry people from suburbs to jobs in the urban core, when so much commuting today is from suburb to suburb.

More drivers, more cars

Nearly all the growth in commuting traffic can be attributed to the growth in commutes by private vehicle. Census data on commuting show that between 1980 and 2013, the proportion of workers driving alone to work increased from 64 percent to 77 percent. Carpooling dropped from 20 percent of trips to 10 percent, and public transit declined slightly from 6 percent of trips to 5 percent.

Some drivers lament that they don't have any other options. But for most Americans, expanding transit systems is not a priority, even though more than 80 percent of the population lives in urban areas of 150,000 people or more, a share that is expected to keep growing as fewer people settle in rural areas.

A majority of Americans, 53 percent, think the government should increase spending on roads and highways, according to an Associated Press-GfK poll conducted in April. The same proportion would rather live in a single-family suburban or rural house with more land, even if it means longer commutes.

A smaller share, about 4 in 10, says transit spending should be increased. And 44 percent would choose an apartment or smaller house in a walkable urban area with access to public transportation or a short drive to work.

Money and technology

One of the tallest obstacles to ambitious transportation improvements is the lack of reliable funding. The 18.4-cents-a-gallon federal gasoline tax hasn't been increased since 1993, and the revenue it brings in isn't enough to cover current highway and transit spending, let alone increase it.

Raising the gas tax is unpopular with voters, as are other user-fee proposals such as putting more tolls on highways or taxing motorists by the number of miles they drive.

Unable to find a politically acceptable solution, Congress has kept highway and transit programs teetering on the edge of insolvency for much of the past six years. States count on federal money for a share of their transportation spending, ranging from about a third in New Jersey to 93 percent in Alaska.

Whatever plans are adopted, technology is sure to play a big role in helping traffic and commerce flow. In coming decades, cars and trucks might wirelessly "talk" to each other and to traffic lights and other infrastructure, directing drivers to routes that avoid congestion. They may be able to follow each other in close formation on highways, packing more vehicles into what is now empty space. Automakers are testing the technology on Detroit-area roads.

No relief in sight

For now, the distant plans for more trains and better highways don't offer much to millions of Americans who endure long commutes year after year.

Stan Paul, who begins his morning ride to UCLA in Riverside, experimented a few times with public transit, but an hour-plus ride on a commuter train ends near downtown Los Angeles, and to get from there to his office would take at least another hour by subway, bus and foot.

Eventually, a subway extension will connect the city's Union Station to UCLA, so Paul could transfer from the train. The only catch: By the extension's expected 2036 completion date, he'll be retired.

"Right now," he said, "I don't know what I'd do without the van pool."
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Old June 29th, 2015, 11:24 PM   #1726
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Looks like the Expo Line Pylons are black?

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/expo-line/38737726
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Old July 8th, 2015, 08:04 PM   #1727
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http://www.ipernity.com/doc/expo-line/38790420
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Old July 11th, 2015, 06:13 AM   #1728
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Los Angeles Metro Rail 25th Anniversary

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Old July 15th, 2015, 12:41 AM   #1729
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Quote:
Santa Ana-to-Garden Grove streetcar project rolls forward

By Nicole Knight
Orange Co. Register
July 13, 2015

"The prospect of a light-rail streetcar traversing a segment of the county’s urban core took another step forward Monday when the county transportation board approved a framework agreement with the city of Santa Ana.

Under the agreement, the Orange County Transportation Authority will bear responsibility for the construction, maintenance and operation of the estimated $250 million Santa Ana-to-Garden-Grove rail line.

The four-mile, hop-on, hop-off service would carry commuters, shoppers and tourists on a dozen stops to the county seat, jobs and entertainment. It’s expected to open in 2019..."
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/s...il-county.html
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Old July 25th, 2015, 12:48 PM   #1730
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Why did they build the Gold and Blue lines as 30 mile long tram lines? Doesn't it take forever to get from downtown LA to Long Beach on the blue?
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Old July 25th, 2015, 03:28 PM   #1731
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Why did they build the Gold and Blue lines as 30 mile long tram lines? Doesn't it take forever to get from downtown LA to Long Beach on the blue?
They're light rail lines, not streetcars...
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Old July 25th, 2015, 03:49 PM   #1732
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The word 'tram' can encompass anything from streetcar to light rail. But the answer to his question: Money and politics. And I heard it was about 45mins from Santa Monica to Downtown.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 03:55 PM   #1733
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The word 'tram' can encompass anything from streetcar to light rail. But the answer to his question: Money and politics. And I heard it was about 45mins from Santa Monica to Downtown.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ tram definitely connotes something with the LOS and technical specifications/characteristics of a streetcar...

People use them interchangeably, but they're not the same.
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Old July 26th, 2015, 02:29 AM   #1734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia.org
A tram (also known as tramcar; and in North America known as streetcar, trolley or trolley car), is a rail vehicle which runs on tracks along public urban streets (called street running), and also sometimes on separate rights of way.[1]
...
Tram lines may also run between cities and/or towns (for example, interurbans, tram-train), and/or partially grade-separated even in the cities (light rail). Very occasionally, trams also carry freight. Tram vehicles are usually lighter and shorter than conventional trains and rapid transit trains, but the size of trams (particularly light rail vehicles) is rapidly increasing. Some trams (for instance tram-trains) may also run on ordinary railway tracks, a tramway may be upgraded to a light rail or a rapid transit line, two urban tramways may be connected to an interurban, etc.

For all these reasons, the differences between the various modes of rail transportation are often indistinct.
Voilà.
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Old July 27th, 2015, 08:16 AM   #1735
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Not written in stone but as a general rule.............

LRT vehicles can usually be coupled together unlike Streetcars/trams.
LRT vehicle can be boarded from both sides of the train where st/tr are usually only boarded on one side.
LRT routes almost always have ROW as opposed to st/tr where it varies.
LRT have bigger distances between stations much like subway spacing.
LRT tends to be for more medium/long urban trips where st/tr tend to be for more localized travel.
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Old July 27th, 2015, 12:59 PM   #1736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ tram definitely connotes something with the LOS and technical specifications/characteristics of a streetcar...

People use them interchangeably, but they're not the same.
I'm using the word "tram" in British English, which translates to a streetcar in US English.
In the UK, the term "light rail" means tram/streetcar or the Docklands Light Railway-small automatic metro type services. I just thought it might have been better to build an elevated heavy rail metro like the red line along the blue line corridor.
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Old July 27th, 2015, 02:52 PM   #1737
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Originally Posted by LondonerMiles View Post
I'm using the word "tram" in British English, which translates to a streetcar in US English.
In the UK, the term "light rail" means tram/streetcar or the Docklands Light Railway-small automatic metro type services. I just thought it might have been better to build an elevated heavy rail metro like the red line along the blue line corridor.
I understand, and I simply am of the opinion that that translation is an error/confusion, and doesn't make sense when you actually examine LOS and other technical aspects: light rail is distinct from streetcars & trams. There are light rail lines that operate, essentially, as streetcars/trams (the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail is one such example). However, it is totally incorrect to refer to these lines as "light rail." Though, I understand I'm in the minority.

The blue line was the first light rail line built in LA, in the late 80s or so, along the old Pacific Electric streetcar ROW. This was done for expedience.

The councilman who shepherded the project through wanted to reactivate this particular ROW, and was not on-board with the idea of subways in LA; he felt light-rail would suffice (cheaper, easier to build, more suitable for the city's land-use, etc).

For what it's worth, this blue line apparently did quite well after revenue service began, exceeding ridership estimates quite early on...
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Old July 27th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #1738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonerMiles View Post
I'm using the word "tram" in British English, which translates to a streetcar in US English.
In the UK, the term "light rail" means tram/streetcar or the Docklands Light Railway-small automatic metro type services.
I'd say that the segregation (Tyne & Wear Metro is also Light Rail (though shares with heavy rail at times) - the automatic nature of the DLR isn't what makes it light rail) is a total red herring and a flaw in the (otherwise superior) UK English.

The key distinction with trams is surely whether it functions like:
1) trains that can run on street: longer vehicles, less frequent stops, faster running speeds. 'Light Rail'
or
2) buses that run on rails: shorter vehicles, higher stop density, slower running speeds. 'Streetcars'

Both, in UK English, would simply be called 'trams' unless fully segregated from the road, which sucks. The success of linking some run-down rail lines in Manchester and South London with on-street sections led people to think that type-2 trams would be a good idea (West London Tram and Cross River Tram being the biggest wastes of time as ideas).

Obviously there's blurs within systems - Manchester Metrolink tram network's Eccles, Ashton and Airport lines tend towards type-2, but the Bury, Altrincham, Rochdale and East Didsbury lines tend towards type-1 (being converted railways).

The near-entirely segregated Midland Metro tries to be a type-2 (having butchered an intercity railway to do it - it would be much better as a type-1) - segregation isn't the be-all-and-end-all as you can still muck up in the execution!

LA's Light Rail routes mostly tend towards type-1.

The advantages of a type-1 system over heavy rail is that they can run on-street and give excellent penetration of an important area (cf the massive increase in ridership levels on the Oldham-Rochdale line of Manchester Metrolink when they relocated the route through Oldham town centre off of the old heavy-rail alignment skirting it) - in the Blue line's case, that's in Long Beach.

LA Metro has used the advantages of having trams, rather than heavy rail, on it's Blue, Gold and Expo lines (the Green could have been either, but Light Rail means easier extensions and integration with the rest of the network), but still used the advantages of having segregated corridors for large parts of the route (ie not Midland Metroed it). Light Rail was the right choice.
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Old July 27th, 2015, 09:06 PM   #1739
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Why did they build the Gold and Blue lines as 30 mile long tram lines? Doesn't it take forever to get from downtown LA to Long Beach on the blue?
If im not mistaken, i think the run time from Downtown LA to Long Beach is 58 minutes, and the distance is about 25 miles.

The Expo line from Santa Monica to Downtown LA will take about 40 - 45 min
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Old July 27th, 2015, 09:31 PM   #1740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
Not written in stone but as a general rule.............

LRT vehicles can usually be coupled together unlike Streetcars/trams.
LRT vehicle can be boarded from both sides of the train where st/tr are usually only boarded on one side.
LRT routes almost always have ROW as opposed to st/tr where it varies.
LRT have bigger distances between stations much like subway spacing.
LRT tends to be for more medium/long urban trips where st/tr tend to be for more localized travel.
In North America those do tend to be the major trends. Someone outside of NA would basically laugh lol.
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