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Old October 29th, 2015, 05:54 AM   #1961
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Probably more demand for Santa Monica then Long Beach...
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Old October 29th, 2015, 05:58 AM   #1962
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Maybe not, but there will be plenty of demand to go from Watts to Pasadena, or Azusa to Bunker Hill, or Long Beach to Union Station. Rail transit lines aren't just meant to benefit their endpoints, but rather connect all of the areas between them. Take a look at the most successful transit systems, and you probably won't be finding as many people taking lines from end-to-end as those taking trips somehow involving the middle or transfers.

Was the inclusion of the Gold Line extension a largely political everyone-gets-a-piece project to save the rest? Sure, that's how politics works whether we like it or not. But rail lines do far more than just connect their endpoints.
lol.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 03:11 PM   #1963
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Probably more demand for Santa Monica then Long Beach...
Oh I completely agree. Finishing the Purple Line should be on the top of regional priorities in a perfect world. It's one of the only places in the country that even qualifies for heavy rail money from the Feds. That says quite a lot right there.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 03:51 PM   #1964
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Presumably Nexis was talking about pairing the line to Azusa with the Expo line, rather than the Blue line?
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Old October 29th, 2015, 07:58 PM   #1965
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Presumably Nexis was talking about pairing the line to Azusa with the Expo line, rather than the Blue line?
Oh right, that too. My bad!

If they made the pairings Azusa-Santa Monica and East LA-Long Beach, it would break with their objective of having a lot of mostly straight lines creating a grid through the city. I'd imagine their numbers would have to predict a major major difference in ridership estimates for them to break the paradigm of both the bus network and the Measure R plans.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 08:02 PM   #1966
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Oh right, that too. My bad!

If they made the pairings Azusa-Santa Monica and East LA-Long Beach, it would break with their objective of having a lot of mostly straight lines creating a grid through the city. I'd imagine their numbers would have to predict a major major difference in ridership estimates for them to break the paradigm of both the bus network and the Measure R plans.
I've talked with a few people at Metro recently, and someone brought up the possibility that Metro might run limited Santa Monica-Pasadena service -- possibly on game/event days at the Rose Bowl. There are no standing plans to do so, but it's good to know that the Regional Connector can accommodate that kind of service change, should it be deemed necessary.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 08:41 PM   #1967
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The only thing I could possibly see that doing is enabling flights into the Ontario airport instead of LAX, but if it really took 2-3 hours to travel end to end, there'd have to be a big price difference, ticket-wise, to incentivize people to do so.

Seems like a long-shot. A commuter rail would make a lot more sense, for sure.
No one is going to use Ontario if they are going to LA proper; it's strictly for San Bernardino and Riverside Counties and the east end of LA County. If you want to avoid LAX, there are Burbank, Long Beach and OC airports, which are closer to all the other major areas of LA.

The short answer is that these lines to nowhere had no value except to the local builders and unions.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 11:28 PM   #1968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCUrbanist View Post
Maybe not, but there will be plenty of demand to go from Watts to Pasadena, or Azusa to Bunker Hill, or Long Beach to Union Station. Rail transit lines aren't just meant to benefit their endpoints, but rather connect all of the areas between them. Take a look at the most successful transit systems, and you probably won't be finding as many people taking lines from end-to-end as those taking trips somehow involving the middle or transfers.

Was the inclusion of the Gold Line extension a largely political everyone-gets-a-piece project to save the rest? Sure, that's how politics works whether we like it or not. But rail lines do far more than just connect their endpoints.
I agree, thats what i was saying earlier. This line will mostly benefit San Gabriel valley residents who would like to go to Pasadena
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Old October 30th, 2015, 07:06 AM   #1969
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Just wondering whether there are any sort of increased residential density plans along the future extension of the light rail line to Azusa?
As a tourist I found the stations at places like Sierra Madre quite off putting....a train station in the middle of a 12 lane freeway where all you are aware of is the sound of thousands of cars rushing by...
When the new section of the line departs the freeway are there opportunities to build some quality transit developments?
I was quite surprised by how little development there was along the Los Angeles rail lines ( and I rode the Expo, Blue, Gold and red lines)
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Old October 30th, 2015, 07:25 AM   #1970
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Just wondering whether there are any sort of increased residential density plans along the future extension of the light rail line to Azusa?
As a tourist I found the stations at places like Sierra Madre quite off putting....a train station in the middle of a 12 lane freeway where all you are aware of is the sound of thousands of cars rushing by...
When the new section of the line departs the freeway are there opportunities to build some quality transit developments?
I was quite surprised by how little development there was along the Los Angeles rail lines ( and I rode the Expo, Blue, Gold and red lines)
Thats exactly what they did with this line extension. Most of the stations have TOD's if not multiple ones being built around them.

Also, we are seeing a lot of new TOD along Expo, Gold, Red and Purple lines now, especially in East Hollywood, Hollywood, Downtown, Koreatown and Culver city / Santa Monica.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 08:16 PM   #1971
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Funny timing, after our recent discussion of the LAX-DTLA line, but Metro's blog The Source is reporting that Metro has secured a $15 Million TIGER grant to convert the Harbor Subdivision between the Crenshaw Line and Blue Line to a pedestrian and bike trail, that will eventually connect to the river.



Which would seem to rule out rail along the HS ROW, at least in the short term, but I've been reassured by a number of people that this does not preclude Metro from making the conversion later, when funding is cleared.

I was disappointed to hear turning this into the "LAX Express" wasn't at the very top of Metro's docket, but I've heard some compelling reasons they need to do some work if that's ever going to happen: namely how to avoid railroading (I know, I know) the lower-income locals -- for whom park space is much more important than a new rail line, whose neighborhoods could essentially be bifurcated by the line, and who won't get any use out of it at all if local stops aren't included -- in favor of wealthier business travelers.

I think the best solution would be to do the bike trail AND the rail line, much like they did with the Expo to great effect. The problem is, this ROW is only 10-15 feet wide most of the way, and any line would have to be double-tracked. So in order to do that, you'd have to give Slauson Ave a significant road diet, which creates its own political obstacles.

But people are slooowly learning the benefits of road diets... if the bike/ped trail is a success in the community, then narrowing Slauson in order to add Metro Rail might be more palatable in a couple years. And if they include some local stops (Western, Vermont, San Pedro and Central all seem like candidates), I have to think a politically viable balance could be struck, especially if you were to alternate Express and Local trains.
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 10:28 PM   #1972
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A look at the future of LA Union Station -- UPDATED

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Old November 4th, 2015, 09:47 PM   #1973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
Funny timing, after our recent discussion of the LAX-DTLA line, but Metro's blog The Source is reporting that Metro has secured a $15 Million TIGER grant to convert the Harbor Subdivision between the Crenshaw Line and Blue Line to a pedestrian and bike trail, that will eventually connect to the river.



Which would seem to rule out rail along the HS ROW, at least in the short term, but I've been reassured by a number of people that this does not preclude Metro from making the conversion later, when funding is cleared.

I was disappointed to hear turning this into the "LAX Express" wasn't at the very top of Metro's docket, but I've heard some compelling reasons they need to do some work if that's ever going to happen: namely how to avoid railroading (I know, I know) the lower-income locals -- for whom park space is much more important than a new rail line, whose neighborhoods could essentially be bifurcated by the line, and who won't get any use out of it at all if local stops aren't included -- in favor of wealthier business travelers.

I think the best solution would be to do the bike trail AND the rail line, much like they did with the Expo to great effect. The problem is, this ROW is only 10-15 feet wide most of the way, and any line would have to be double-tracked. So in order to do that, you'd have to give Slauson Ave a significant road diet, which creates its own political obstacles.

But people are slooowly learning the benefits of road diets... if the bike/ped trail is a success in the community, then narrowing Slauson in order to add Metro Rail might be more palatable in a couple years. And if they include some local stops (Western, Vermont, San Pedro and Central all seem like candidates), I have to think a politically viable balance could be struck, especially if you were to alternate Express and Local trains.
The narrative needs to be reframed--it should not be pitched as an LAX-Downtown Express, but rather a desperately needed light rail serving a dense, low-income, transit-dependent population allowing interchanges between multiple lines with significant beneficial network effects.

tl:dr Not building the line is racist.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 10:03 PM   #1974
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They couldn't have fit in 2 extra stations?
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Old November 6th, 2015, 03:55 AM   #1975
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Second Quarter 2015 Daily Ridership numbers for Greater LA Region

Heavy Rail
Los Angeles / Purple & Red lines - 140,000 (2015) : -4.05%

Light Rail
Los Angeles / Metro-LRT - 188,700 (2015) : -5.94%

Suburban/Regional/Commuter Rail
Los Angeles Suburbs / MetroLink - 42,000 (2015) : 0.26% +

Bus Ridership
Los Angeles / MTA Bus - 1,062.3 Million (2015) : -5.41%
Orange County / OC Bus - 144,900 (2015) : -5.94%
Long Beach / Long Beach transit - 88,000 (2015) : -1.12%
Santa Monica / Santa Monica's Big Blue Bus - 65,600 (2015) : -13.15%
San Bernardino / OMNITRANS - 42,900 (2015) : -12.42%
Montebello / Montebello Bus Lines - 28,300 (2015) : -9.11%
Riverside / Riverside Transit Agency - 24,600 (2015) : -0.85%
Santa Barbara / Santa Barbara MTD - 24,000 (2015) : -5.84%
Culver City / Culver CityBus - 16,000 (2015) : 0.00%
Torrance / Torrance Transit System - 13,700 (2015) : 0.07% +
Oxnard / Gold Coast Transit - 12,100 (2015) : 1.72% +
Santa Clarita / Santa Clarita Transit - 10,500 (2015) : -7.95%
Norwalk / Norwalk Transit System - 5,200 (2015) : -9.10%


Weird regional ridership decrease , did the fares go up in Q2?
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Old November 6th, 2015, 11:16 PM   #1976
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Statistical artifact, seasonal fluctuations, increased fares, or is something seriously wrong?
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Old November 6th, 2015, 11:47 PM   #1977
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Statistical artifact, seasonal fluctuations, increased fares, or is something seriously wrong?
The economic recovery and even more the steep drop on gas prices, now less tha nhalf what they were in 2008 on average, is bringing down ridership in several US transit systems.
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Old November 7th, 2015, 04:18 AM   #1978
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And trends will follow in that manner unless the US enacts a higher gas tax, also cities should have gas taxing authority
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Old November 7th, 2015, 04:44 AM   #1979
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The economic recovery and even more the steep drop on gas prices, now less tha nhalf what they were in 2008 on average, is bringing down ridership in several US transit systems.
I think its just lower gas prices...most jobs are moving into cities...and near transit and into Anti-car cities...
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Old November 7th, 2015, 08:12 AM   #1980
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Yeah I think that is the best explanation. I think in the coming months/years there will be a drop in transit ridership everywhere as all they lose all those non-choice riders who were gained during the extended recession/gas price double whammy that forced a lot of people to take transit whether they wanted to or not.

However I hope this doesn't dampen interest in transit or reverse the political support and funding for it. Because the core is still there. Cities have been transformed.
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