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Old March 8th, 2009, 05:40 PM   #2401
ChrisZwolle
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There's no space for a 12 lane bridge next to it. They have to replace it at it's current situation. However, the bridge is rather high, and it usually doesn't open that much. But when it opens, you'll easily have a couple of thousand cars waiting...
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Old March 8th, 2009, 05:41 PM   #2402
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Cool! But I would prefer a tunnel.
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Old March 8th, 2009, 06:07 PM   #2403
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Have you got any idea what kind of project that would be? The bridge itself has already enough capacity to handle the traffic. Besides, it is a great landmark for the city of Rotterdam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There's no space for a 12 lane bridge next to it. They have to replace it at it's current situation. However, the bridge is rather high, and it usually doesn't open that much. But when it opens, you'll easily have a couple of thousand cars waiting...
Yeah, fortunately this bridge rarely opens, which cannot be said about e.g. the bridge at A20 Spaanse Polder. It opens practicly every day. (don't have the numbers, but at least AADT 100.000+)
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Old March 8th, 2009, 09:34 PM   #2404
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A tunnel? That will take another 50 years, Ripley
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Old March 8th, 2009, 11:24 PM   #2405
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For how long does that bridge usually stay open?
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Old March 8th, 2009, 11:26 PM   #2406
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The bridge usually only opens for special ships, so it's easily like 2 - 3 minutes. But that's not the problem. Before all traffic moves again, you'll be 15 - 20 minutes further because of the huge traffic flow on this motorway. At 250,000 vehicles/day volume, you'll have a very fast build-up of stationary traffic at such full-closures.
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Old March 8th, 2009, 11:36 PM   #2407
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Well, it's nuts to have these openings during daytime. They should plan the ships' passing to nights or very early mornings.
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Old March 8th, 2009, 11:40 PM   #2408
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Unfortunately it crosses a very busy waterway. All the ships from the Rhine to Rotterdam pass over here.
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Old March 8th, 2009, 11:43 PM   #2409
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The clearance of the Brienenoordbridge is 24 meters.

I just read on the Dutch wikipedia:

"Annually 140,000 ships pass the bridge, yet it has to open for only 500 per year. The process of bridge-opening takes 18 minutes, 4 minutes for the lift, 10 minutes to pass, and 4 minutes to lower the bridge again."

So my estimate was a bit optimistic, traffic impact is rather large on any time of the day.
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Old March 9th, 2009, 12:00 AM   #2410
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Suppose the bridge is being opened in rush-hour. It carries 6 lanes per direction.

Normal lane capacity is 2000 cars/hour, now let's suppose rush hour traffic carries 1500 cars in each lane every hour.

That's 450 vehicles in 18 minutes, 6 lanes make it 2700 cars.

Each vehicle occupies around 10 m of lane (trucks included), 2700 x 10m = 27km / 6 = 4,5km long line of cars in each direction plus at least 1 more km while the initial line of stationary vehicles gets mobile
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Old March 9th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #2411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
-edit- This could have been in Estonia
I agree
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Old March 9th, 2009, 07:23 PM   #2412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morsue View Post
Well, it's nuts to have these openings during daytime. They should plan the ships' passing to nights or very early mornings.
AFAIK, ships always have the right of way in this country. Anywhere, anytime.
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Old March 9th, 2009, 09:28 PM   #2413
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According to RTL, A Dutch news station, 5% of the traffic jams are caused due to police are checking speeds on motorways. The Police itself says it less than that. The A2 has generated most speeding fines, 240.000 people were fined here. 198.000 people were fined on A1 and 121.000 people were fined on A12 in 2008.
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Old March 10th, 2009, 10:44 AM   #2414
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I got the feeling traffic jams are somewhat less in the last month. Ofcourse, January and February are traditionally the most quiet months in the year, but especially the freight transport and construction transport is taking a heavy dip. The construction sector is quite large in the Netherlands, because our population still grows and unemployment was usually one of the lowest in EU. With construction productivity decreasing, the amount of vans and commuters on the road is somewhat reduced.

Fuel prices seems not to be any kind of a factor, when they hit peaks in last summer, so did traffic volumes, they started to slow down when fuel was significantly down too. Now I also understand why cities like Liège and Charleroi have nearly no traffic problems... 30% is unemployed, that saves quite some commuter traffic.
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Old March 10th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #2415
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Although this morning is rather busy... at 9.15 am.
[IMG]http://i43.************/2wbyg7t.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 10th, 2009, 11:57 AM   #2416
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I don't get how these people do it, sitting in jams every day. I found a new job in the Hague, which is a 200km commute (I take the train - direct connection) and you wouldn't believe the number of traffic jams I'd face if I were to take the car!

I'm moving to the Hague soon, I want to be able to cycle to work in under 10 minutes. That's the only way to live
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Old March 10th, 2009, 01:46 PM   #2417
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Well, most people are not that crazy to commute 200 km since a 30 - 40 km commute can already take up more than an hour.

However, a recent published study by the "Central Planning Bureau" showed 90% of the trips taken with a car takes twice the time with public transportation.

Let's put it this way; there is nearly NO competition between public transport and the car. This "competition" is artificially made by leftist parties and rail advocates to get as much money for their projects because many politicians still have the illusion public transport can solve traffic problems. Only 5% of the daily trips are taken with public transport. Most of that are by people who don't have a choice because they don't own a car or drivers license.

Even people with a social minimum income do only 17% of their mileage by public transport, while it's a target audience you think would be interested in PT.

The only reason why PT has a 40% share to the larger cities is because of the great number of students. Remember, they travel for free in the Netherlands, so PT is also artificially filled up, creating the illusion that PT takes a lot of cars off the road. The fact is only 0 -3 of the 10 new PT users are former motorists.

The real problem, are the so-called "door-to-door" relations. Politicians focus themselves blind on station-to-station travel times, while those are only a part of the whole trip. station to station travel times are often indeed faster with PT than by car, but overall, the car is faster, as shown in the survey.
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Old March 10th, 2009, 04:50 PM   #2418
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Couldn't have been said better.
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Old March 11th, 2009, 01:07 AM   #2419
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^ It's good that politicians in Poland are very keen on of the new roads.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM   #2420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I got the feeling traffic jams are somewhat less in the last month. Ofcourse, January and February are traditionally the most quiet months in the year, but especially the freight transport and construction transport is taking a heavy dip. The construction sector is quite large in the Netherlands, because our population still grows and unemployment was usually one of the lowest in EU. With construction productivity decreasing, the amount of vans and commuters on the road is somewhat reduced.

Fuel prices seems not to be any kind of a factor, when they hit peaks in last summer, so did traffic volumes, they started to slow down when fuel was significantly down too. Now I also understand why cities like Liège and Charleroi have nearly no traffic problems... 30% is unemployed, that saves quite some commuter traffic.
Crisis is nice, crisis is good, Iam satisfied with the crisis.

Viva la CRISIS!
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