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Old May 6th, 2009, 11:20 PM   #2781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Mah, I find most of these fines perfect examples of the overregulation that exists today.
Some of them are quite weird, but IMO bicycles must meet some minimal standards to make them visible and safe to ride on roads which they share with the cars.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 11:38 PM   #2782
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The police can collect a few thousand euros when doing a regular check on a random train station and applying all those rules. Still they don't do that.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:33 AM   #2783
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This part of the country is as flat as a pancake
I forgot I was in the Dutch thread.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 07:06 PM   #2784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Mah, I find most of these fines perfect examples of the overregulation that exists today.
I'm missing some much more important offences, like not giving way! There are enough bicyclists who even can get angry when you take way when you're coming from the right! Now I tell you...
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:11 PM   #2785
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A4 Delft - Schiedam

The EIA (Environmental Impact Assessment) came out yesterday of the variants to deal with the traffic problems between The Hague and Rotterdam.

There are basically two variants.

1. Current situation:
[IMG]http://i43.************/2609a9t.jpg[/IMG]

2. Variant 1: widening A13 to 2x5 and extending it to A16. AADT 2020: 300.000
[IMG]http://i40.************/kd0nc3.jpg[/IMG]

3. Variant 2: bridging the A4 gap with 2x2 lanes. Leaving the A13 in it's current state. (2x3). AADT 2020 A4: 129.000
[IMG]http://i41.************/25ana89.jpg[/IMG]

Both variants have a grand total of about 300.000 vehicles per day between The Hague and Rotterdam.

Variant 1 means the A13 will be widened to 2+3+3+2 lanes. The AADT will be around 287.000 to 300.000 vehicles per day in 2020. Advantage is that a second freeway is not needed, but the disadvantage is that a new part of A13 need to be constructed along the north side of Rotterdam, plus the A16 Brienenoordbridge is gonna be a problem, since it already operates near capacity at 232.000 on 12 lanes.

Variant 2 means an extended A4 between Delft and Schiedam. There are a few variants, but those only differ in the number of merging lanes in the proposed tunnel near Schiedam. It has basically 2x2 lanes and an AADT of 129.000 in 2020. The advantage is that there are two possible routes between both metropolitan areas, which is good for the network. The disadvantage is that a 2x2 A4 can never handle 129.000 vehicles per day. Another disadvantage is that the A15 south of Rotterdam will handle a staggering 55.000 trucks per day, which would be a new world record.

Over the grand total, both solutions will not solve traffic problems. Both variants will have 10 lanes between The Hague and Rotterdam, which is not enough to handle 300.000 vehicles per day. They are both better than doing nothing, especially to relieve local routes from traffic that avoids A13. Both variants will cause problems on adjacent routes, variant 1 means the A16 Brienenoordbridge will operate to capacity, although not as bad as neighboring A20. Variant 2 means the A15 will become overloaded with truck traffic, estimates for 2020 foresee 55.000 trucks per day, which is unseen in the world, current records are I-710 in Los Angeles and I-80 near Chicago at 40.000 trucks per day to my knowledge.

Basically, I think both proposed variants are far from a solution, and represents the short term vision of the government. Due to NIMBY's, air quality regulations, and ecological groups, it might be the best they can get.

However, I would like to see two extra variants;

1) A4 2x3 + A13 2x4
or
2) A13 2x7 (3+4+4+3)

You'll need 14 lanes to handle 300.000 vehicles per day properly. It won't be completely free of traffic jams, but only 10 lanes for 300.000 will create Los Angeles like congestion. However, it's always better than having 200.000 on 2x3 + 100.000 elswhere that creates congestion on local roads and towns.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:56 PM   #2786
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Why does the A4 have a gap in the first place? It should have been filled years ago. GE shows that ground works are more or less done, there is a reserve, all they need to do is lay asphalt and build neccessary ramps. Benefits are huge: you relieve some traffic from A13 and A20 and get a new parallel connection in case of A13 closure. All that at moderately low cost.

A13 extension seems reasonable but it'd rather be NIMBY'ed to death (someone would lose his favourite golf course ). The costs could be huge as well. I hope at least the A4 would be completed ASAP.

Oh, and how about extending the A4 and connecting it to A29?
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:57 PM   #2787
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As a cheap, but better solution to the problem, A 2x3 A4 would do. It would be cheaper than the A13 solution and provide two more lanes for not much more than what 2x2 would cost.

D3 can cope with 129000 easily without getting too snarled up (it's junctions and what it feeds into that snarls it up) - the UK has quite a few that fit into that kind of category. OK, 130k is pushing the upper limit of D3M, so it's far from ideal, but a lot more likely than your idea, plus cheaper than the A13 option, with more capacity to boot. As for the trucks, doing the next bit of A4 (to the A29) would probably relieve quite a bit of that.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:58 PM   #2788
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What do you mean by either D3 or D3M?

2x2 starts to get chronically congested above 80.000 - 90.000
There are few 2x2 motorways that carry over 100.000 in the world.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:39 AM   #2789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What do you mean by either D3 or D3M?
Engineer standard abbreviations. Dual 3-lane and Dual 3-lane Motorway. I really struggle to understand 2x3 - is it two lanes three times, or two lots of three lanes - it's not explict, especially when you start going into things like 2x1 (D1) or 1x2 (S2 - single 2-lane). The plus thing works, but I can't see 3-4-4-3 set up being considered 2x7 - I'd have it as D4 with D3 c-d lanes (or just 3-4-4-3), 2x7 suggests two carriageways of 7 lanes each. The jargon I use, and the trouble with other jargon is simply as I am English, so use English odology (study of roads) terms. This page is helpful on them.

I often, by mistake, say things like 'hard shoulder' rather than 'emergency lane' when on American threads. The problem with different jargon is that they are both English, only one is English English, the other is American English, and there may be a separate International/Canadian/Austrialian/Kiwi/etc English phrase as well. IIRC Americans tend to say 4-lane for D2, Europeans often go 2x2, others go 2+2. I just get confused and stick to what I know (American phraseology is the worst, as it hasn't got 2 lots of 2 anywhere near there)
Quote:
2x2 starts to get chronically congested above 80.000 - 90.000
There are few 2x2 motorways that carry over 100.000 in the world.
Hence why I suggest 2x3 (and I called it that in my first sentence so as to meet your terminology, though I dropped back into my terminology) for the A4.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 08:56 AM   #2790
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The missing A4 now:










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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:11 PM   #2791
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The first unpaved 2×3 I've ever seen
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:24 PM   #2792
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Looks like a precious piece of nature.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 06:12 PM   #2793
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Looks like a major Sunday walk destination in the vicinity (or the place for your dog to poop)
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Old May 8th, 2009, 08:40 PM   #2794
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Don't build a Highway there , leave it , make it a park with trails!
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Old May 9th, 2009, 04:22 PM   #2795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic View Post
A13 extension seems reasonable but it'd rather be NIMBY'ed to death (someone would lose his favourite golf course ). The costs could be huge as well.
NIMBY'ism is a problem for A4 DS as well, even though the plans are lying there for over 50 years... Costs for a 7 km tunnel won't be that low either, btw.

Quote:
Oh, and how about extending the A4 and connecting it to A29?
Doesn't have priority (yet).
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Old May 9th, 2009, 04:23 PM   #2796
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N36 Ommen bypass

The N36 is being extended to the north side of Ommen for two reasons;

1) To get east-west traffic out of Ommen
2) To improve north-south traffic with a shorter route

map:
[IMG]http://i43.************/2cpxmh1.png[/IMG]

They started in February with the works, and are now progressed for about 3 months. The works should be completed in 2010, and the current route through Ommen will be downgraded to a market street in 2011.

1. At the N36/N34 intersection. A big roundabout is planned here.
image hosted on flickr


2. Looking south to the N36 current end.
image hosted on flickr


3. A huge area has been cut down for a simple 2x1 road, why I don't know.
image hosted on flickr


4. A couple of kilometers to the northwest, where the road is supposed to come out of this tiny forest.
image hosted on flickr


5. This is a future parallel road for cyclists and agricultural traffic.
image hosted on flickr


6. Looking west down the parallel road.
image hosted on flickr


7. This is the roadbed for the future N36.
image hosted on flickr


8. I think they're gonna build a roundabout or viaduc there, not sure.
image hosted on flickr


9. Looking east. There are two parallel roads now.
image hosted on flickr


10. Looking west.
image hosted on flickr


11. Another location, looking west.
image hosted on flickr


12. Earthworks in progress.
image hosted on flickr


13. Looking at N48 in the back of the pic (and another road more prominently on this pic, with a canal in between)
image hosted on flickr


14. This will be the end of the future N36.
image hosted on flickr
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Old May 9th, 2009, 06:52 PM   #2797
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Van Brienenoordbrug Rotterdam
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolkenbestormer View Post
[IMG]http://i43.************/lyyad.jpg[/IMG]
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Old May 9th, 2009, 09:26 PM   #2798
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... which can be opened:

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Old May 9th, 2009, 09:43 PM   #2799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
N36 Ommen bypass

The N36 is being extended to the north side of Ommen for two reasons;

1) To get east-west traffic out of Ommen
2) To improve north-south traffic with a shorter route

map:
[IMG]http://i43.************/2cpxmh1.png[/IMG]

They started in February with the works, and are now progressed for about 3 months. The works should be completed in 2010, and the current route through Ommen will be downgraded to a market street in 2011.
Overijssel is a sublime example of how a province can be rendered a useless entity by crappy infrastructure.

The motorways of Overijssel are aimed at connecting it to other parts of the country. Meanwhile connections within the province get zero priority. There is no motorway from Almelo/Hengelo/Enschede to Zwolle - the economic heartland and the capital city respectively. It's bizarre.

As a result, there are very few people who consider themselves Overijsselaar. Instead there are the Zwollenaars and Tukkers.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 09:45 PM   #2800
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Yes, very true, there is little Overijssel identity, Twente is a much more acknowledged identity in the eastern parts of Overijssel, and Salland somewhat less for the rural areas outside Zwolle, then the city of Zwolle, and finally the forgotten part of northern Overijssel.
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