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Old September 16th, 2009, 10:50 PM   #3241
Qaabus
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Rural? Ever been there? The north bank is built up almost continuously. Especially the part between Duiven and Zevenaar will be problematic. Connecting the A15 to the A18 would circumvent that problem, but probably won't relieve Arnhem's Rhine crossings enough to make it viable.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 10:57 PM   #3242
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The area does have some towns, but it's not a continuously build-up area. There's plenty of space to extend A15 between Duiven and Zevenaar. No need to build a depressed freeway over there. The rural area between Duiven and Zevenaar is still 1.2 km wide at it's narrowest point.

Google Earth:
[IMG]http://i25.************/v3f11c.jpg[/IMG]
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Old September 16th, 2009, 11:07 PM   #3243
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It still has to squirm a way somewhere through this area before it gets to that 1200m though.

[img]http://i25.************/2vbng3d.jpg[/img]
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Old September 16th, 2009, 11:10 PM   #3244
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Bulldoze a few properties and build a sound wall. That has been done that way like since forever. You can better expropriate a few houses for 30 million than build a depressed freeway that's 500 million euros more expensive...

Building at ground level called for a 750 million plan, a depressed one for 1200 million.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 11:18 PM   #3245
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Wow, 1.2 billion for 14 km. That is insane!
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Old September 16th, 2009, 11:23 PM   #3246
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No need to convice me. Zevenaar managed to get a tunnel for the Betuwelijn, and I can't imagine the local council agreeing to motorway at level. Maybe high earthen barriers will do the trick, but digging in a couple of meters a using local sand might not be much more expensive.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 11:27 PM   #3247
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I very much doubt that this motorway will ever be built

If it is ever going to be constructed, will the current A18 be renumbered to A15?
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Old September 17th, 2009, 02:20 PM   #3248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post

If it is ever going to be constructed, will the current A18 be renumbered to A15?
This would make sense.


I wanto ask, though - what is driving the need to have an extension of the A15?
The infrastructure around Arnhem is pretty good and the extra bit of A15 is not as badly needed as, say, Afsluitdijk was at the time of its conception.


Maybe a carriageway widening scheme around Arnhem would be a better and cheaper option for the region?


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Old September 17th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #3249
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The infrastructure around Arnhem is dramatic. The A50 is jammed for 20 - 25 kilometers almost every day. The surrounding A12 has 2x2 lanes and carries over 100,000 vehicles per day.

It would be better to upgrade N325 to freeway standards though. Traffic is bad there too. I'm afraid A15 is too far away to have a significant impact on the N325 traffic, especially with the stupid plan to make it a toll road.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #3250
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The infrastructure around Arnhem is dramatic. The A50 is jammed for 20 - 25 kilometers almost every day. The surrounding A12 has 2x2 lanes and carries over 100,000 vehicles per day.

It would be better to upgrade N325 to freeway standards though. Traffic is bad there too. I'm afraid A15 is too far away to have a significant impact on the N325 traffic, especially with the stupid plan to make it a toll road.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 07:41 PM   #3251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The infrastructure around Arnhem is dramatic ...
I must disagree, though I won't dispute your stats as I do not have any, bar my own observations.

The infrastructure is fantastic around Arnhem, it is just that at certain times of the day traffic flow hits overcapacity.
It is always busy there but I have yet to run into a proper Dutch-style traffic jam.
It has not happened to me in 15 years of visiting the area.

This brings me to my previous question - how is the building of the A15 extension going to be justified? What is the A15 extension going to solve?

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Old September 17th, 2009, 08:55 PM   #3252
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Transit traffic to Germany and the Achterhoek can avoid the busy A50/A12 with this new route.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 09:09 PM   #3253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
This brings me to my previous question - how is the building of the A15 extension going to be justified? What is the A15 extension going to solve?
If you admit you don't have the stats, why even ask this question? The A50 is a just huge bottle-neck in this area, as well as the A12 Waterberg - Velperbroek. Of course, the effects on current motorways mustn't be overestimated, but it definately can give more relief. At the first place the prolonged A15 will give a much shorter connection between the achterhoek and the middle/south of our country.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 09:21 PM   #3254
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A main problem in the Netherlands is the flexibility of the road network. Policies in the 90's demanded "utilizing of the freeway network". This basically came down to expand theoretical capacity to around 2250 vehicles/hour/lane, so fewer widenings were necessary. From the 1990's onward, many freeway stretches got shoulder running, to relieve congestion during peak hours.

From the 2000's, the use of shoulder running became unsustainable, the practice of shoulder running wasn't limited to 2 - 3 hours during the day, but shoulders are now put into service for a large portion of the day, often from 6 am to 7 pm, and even during weekends. Second, the extreme saturation of the freeways with traffic volumes up to 110,000 on 2x2 freeways caused little incidents like a truck break down or an accident to have a significant impact in a large region. A single lane closure at 6 am at the A2 near Utrecht will cause a 20 kilometer backup until 11 am, even if the lane is reopened at 6.45 am.

Another problem in central Netherlands, including Arnhem, is the lack of fixed links across the Rhine, Waal and Meuse rivers. From Arnhem westward to Rotterdam, there are 7 crossings, 4 of them being 2x2 freeways (A325, A50, A27, N3), 2 2x3 freeways (A2, A16) and 1 provincial highway (N323). All local, regional and transit traffic centers around these bridges. 6 of these 7 bridges have traffic volumes over 100,000 vehicles per day, with no alternative. You can imagine what happens if just the slightest disruption of traffic means in terms of impact on the regional network.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 09:33 PM   #3255
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Here's a little overview of traffic volumes at river crossings in central Netherlands:

A2: 2x3 114,000
N3: 2x2 61,000 (expressway)
A16: 4x2 139,000 (adjacent roadways are 2x3)
A27: 2x2 95,000
A50: 2x2 102,000
N325: 2x2 75,000 (traffic lights)
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Old September 18th, 2009, 12:00 PM   #3256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
If you admit you don't have the stats, why even ask this question?
I guess you misunderstood my intentions - I asked to find out because I did not get an answer to my question previously.
Hopefully, it is not a requirement to have some stats to ask a question.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
Transit traffic to Germany and the Achterhoek can avoid the busy A50/A12 with this new route.
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A main problem in the Netherlands is the flexibility of the road network ...

Here's a little overview of traffic volumes at river crossings in central Netherlands ...
I see. Although I am strongly pro (responsible) road building, as a tax payer, I would have to challenge the €1.2 billion price tag and ask if this kind of budget could be used in a better way to relieve central Nehterlands. It just does not seem added value.

I am still not clear how big an impact the 14 km extension of the A15 would have on the region.
Have any studies or computer modelling been done to assess the 14 km versus widening schemes?


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Old September 18th, 2009, 12:08 PM   #3257
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There are plans to widen A50 to 2x3 and 2x4 by 2012.

There are also plans to widen A12 to 2x3 between A50 and A348/N325.
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Old September 18th, 2009, 11:24 PM   #3258
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werrent there also plans to widen the A1 from Deventer to Azelo from 2x2 to 2x3? that stretch of highway is horrible in peak hours, especially with the huge amount of trucks on the highway, block all ongoing traffic
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Old September 18th, 2009, 11:35 PM   #3259
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There seems to be enough space for it, since there is a wide median. Even most viaducts crossing the motorway seem to be long enough for a 2×3 motorway.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 05:51 PM   #3260
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Danny Vera wrote a song about the A58

The A58 is a Southern motorway, it runs from Eindhoven in the East to Vlissingen on the Western seashore. It weaves past Tilburg, Breda, Roosendaal, Bergen op Zoom and Middelburg. It's the only motorway in the province of Zealand.

In the summer, the worn out asphalt shoulders the burden of hundreds of thousands of tourists (mostly from Germany) who spend their summer vacation by the beaches of the province of Zealand.

The A58 ends in Vlissingen's ferry port where the asphalt disappears under water.



Part of the lyrics:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Vera
I follow your guide
Through meadows and plains
Away from my island
My back to the sea

A58, bring me back home
You're taking too long
My patience is gone

A58, don't take all of my time
I once was your drifter
You know, drifters pass by

And please don't take
Any more of our lives
Can't deal with the pain
So keep us alive
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