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Old November 14th, 2009, 03:58 PM   #3461
ChrisZwolle
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Why should someone in the damn Randstad pay more because the damn government is so damn incompetent not being able to widen a damn freeway for a damn 30 years? Talk about damn fair.

(word has just lost all meaning)
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Old November 14th, 2009, 04:21 PM   #3462
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I agree with Criss, why do we have to pay more, let the government widen the highways, most highways are on the max capicity, let them do something about that, and in these times its even good, creates jobs, saves the economy a shitload of money becouse ppl will eventually stand less in those damn traffic jams.
Spend another 30 or 40 Billion euros, will pay off eventually anyways.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 07:10 PM   #3463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
Question: In some of the pics, there is a green stripe between the center lines. What is it there for?
If a green line appears in the centre of the road, there is a speed limit of 100 km/h. They have done this to cut down the costs of roadsigns.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 08:09 PM   #3464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Why should someone in the damn Randstad pay more because the damn government is so damn incompetent not being able to widen a damn freeway for a damn 30 years? Talk about damn fair.

DAMN!

So roadgeeking will be expensive in the future...
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Old November 14th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #3465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaasbroodje View Post
If a green line appears in the centre of the road, there is a speed limit of 100 km/h. They have done this to cut down the costs of roadsigns.
Road markings never overrule the road signs though. If there is a sign that says 80 km/h on a road with a green center marking, the speed limit is 80, and not 100.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 01:25 AM   #3466
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Tolls in the Netherlands

Tonight, the plans have been unveiled of a toll scheme in the Netherlands with an introduction in 2012.

A GPS-based toll will be implemented, and people will be charged according to distance, time and location. This means a drive during rush hour around Amsterdam will be expensive, but a nightly drive in Drenthe will be cheap.
This system is probably fair, but also very scary and very Orwellian. I don't hope and think surveilance at this scale would ever be accepted even in Norway. Why just don't add fuel tax instead, and add some toll points in the major cities if the goal is to reduce rush hour problems and increase income and / or reduce overall car use?
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Old November 15th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #3467
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There are many entrances to the major cities. It's difficult to implement a closed toll system. Furthermore, traffic jams will move to other (toll-free) locations and not disappear.

The system is fair, but not in the way how they're going to do it here. People living in the Randstad will have to pay much more money than they're doing now. Furthermore, it's scary that somewhere there is a record of where you have been driving. Same for PT. At the moment I have a paper (plastified) student PT card with which I can travel in most PT in the Netherlands for free (during weekends). Next year this paper card disappears and I get the so called "Studenten OV-chipkaart", with which I have to check in when I start my journey and check out when I'm done. Like the Oyster Card in London. Somewhere there is also going to be a record of where I've been travelling with my PT card.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 05:56 PM   #3468
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I doubt a toll ring with extra rush hour tarrif is more complicated in the Dutch cities than for instance London or the Nordic cities where such schemes are used and have significantly reduced rush hour problems. There is a big difference between knowing that you have passed a given point (or entered a bus or train at some station) and knowing your exact route of travel at all times. In addition, I guess you can always pay your PT with cash if you want to? In Norwegian toll schemes you have the option of having your payment records deleted immediately after the amount has been deducted from your account in the toll company; in practice right after passing the toll point. The problem with this option is of course that you cannot complain afterwards if you think you are charged too much, as no record of the transaction exists.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 06:09 PM   #3469
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The proposed Dutch toll scheme is completely different from the London and Stockholm congestion charges.

First, all of the Netherlands falls under the tax, not just city centers, second, traffic problems are mostly on motorways, and historic downtowns do not attract as much traffic as say the city of London or central Stockholm.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 12:39 AM   #3470
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Still it should be possible to tax general traffic (all areas) using added fuel tax and problematic areas using toll points. If the problems are concentrated to the major highways rather than urban areas the complexity should be lower than say London.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 12:50 AM   #3471
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This is just another method to further invade on the privacy of innocent civilians and of course a way to make scandelous amount of extra tax revenue over the backs of working people. It is an absolute disgrace.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 02:00 PM   #3472
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They need more money to buy expensive fighterjets like the JSF, bailout more bank fatsacks, increase the income for the queen and entourage and of course the hardworking citizen is getting screwed every way.

I heard in the new system if you drive more than 18000k a year its already more expensive, ******* joke. The costs almost double every 5 years, so in 2030 you will be paying 1 euro per km.

People should massively refuse to apply the new system, than it will fail.

But most probably people will just vote the CDA back in, ******* joke.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:33 PM   #3473
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How much is a highway in the Nederlands ???
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:38 PM   #3474
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about 2,400 kilometers. I assumed you meant "motorway".
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:42 PM   #3475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike90 View Post
People should massively refuse to apply the new system, than it will fail.

But most probably people will just vote the CDA back in, ******* joke.
Biggest mystery of my life is why people keep voting for those idiots. And it's not just a handful either.

I don't think I'll ever figure it out.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:43 PM   #3476
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about 2,400 kilometers. I assumed you meant "motorway".
Hmm, I always thought it was much more than that.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:43 PM   #3477
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The North and the Southwest are largely void of motorways.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:45 PM   #3478
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But most probably people will just vote the CDA back in, ******* joke.
CDA isn't so much the problem. They had to do this because they made the coalition with the PvdA and one of the key points in forming the coalition was introducing the kilometer charge. CDA already said they aren't such a big proponent of the km charge anymore.

The PvdA is the real evil, finance minister Wouter Bos is the biggest liar in the government, he said that most drivers would profit from the km charge. Yes, with the 3 cent km introduction charge, it may be, but not with the 6,7 cent per km in 2018, a 37% increase per year. That's about 10 - 15 times inflation...

Especially the working class will be hit, because the people who will be cheaper off are those who buy a brand new car every 3 years, or don't drive much, like the elderly.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; November 16th, 2009 at 05:59 PM.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:50 PM   #3479
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PvdA really hate cars, don't they? First prime minister Kok with his stupid quarter that he never gave back and now this.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 06:21 PM   #3480
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Another issue is the fact that the monthly road tax is gonna disappear. The provinces normally get a significant portion of that, and they have already announced that they are gonna charge that in a different way.

So the monthly road tax doesn't disappear at all, it will only get a different name.

This is without a doubt, the greatest scam the Netherlands has seen in a long time. (even worse than the "temporarily" excise increase of 0,25 guilders by Kok (also PvdA).)
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