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Old January 7th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #3741
ChrisZwolle
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Another phrase I encountered about a noise screen on A2:

Quote:
Uit het door TNO verrichte geluidsonderzoek kan geconcludeerd worden dat de snelheidsreductie van 100km/u naar 80km/u (incl. stringente handhaving) t.h.v. Overschie een positief effect heeft van 1-2dB(A) op de geluidsbelasting op de gevels van de langs Rijksweg 13 gesitueerde woningen.
It says a survey by TNO concluded that a reduction of the speed limit from 120 km/h to 80 km/h in combination with 100% enforcement has a positve effect of 1 -2 dB(A). This is a difference you won't notice. 3 dB means the sound doubles, and a difference 2 - 3 is usually the first a human ear can notice.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #3742
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3dB?? That's one silent autosnelweg
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Old January 7th, 2010, 05:55 PM   #3743
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3dB decrease in sound.. what do you think, 3dB is about the sound of a falling leaf...
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Old January 7th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #3744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
3dB decrease in sound.. what do you think, 3dB is about the sound of a falling leaf...
the sound of a falling leaf is way too noisy for me
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Old January 7th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #3745
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sound has a logarithmic scale so the decraese of 3dB is more than 3 times less sound.
that's a lot !
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Old January 7th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #3746
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Actually a difference of 3 dB means the sound doubles or halves. A 2 dB difference is the minimum a human ear can detect. Drastically lowering the speed limit from 120 to 80 km/h saves 1 - 2 dB(A). That's nothing, you can barely hear that difference.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #3747
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Sorry, which dB do you mean?
10 dB means that the sound doubles or halves.

Otherway it will be a weird scale:
2 dB as minimum you can notice but 3 dB as duplication / bisection...
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Old January 8th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #3748
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Yes of course! What else?!
Just close all motorways in NL and everyone will be happy!
If the goverment want decrease speed to 100 km/h becasue of ecology! I will say there are idiots. Not only they but also mostly Dutch drivers. If you want save enviroment and save fuel, just:
- stop speeding from traffic lights,
- don't put maximum acceleration when car engine is cold !!
- stop driving like 119 km/h on the left lane and don't overtake others car several minutes! (like Germans say about label (NL) -->> nur links (fahren))
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Old January 8th, 2010, 09:46 AM   #3749
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Quote:
# The human perception of, for example, sound or light, is, roughly speaking, such that a doubling of actual intensity causes perceived intensity to always increase by the same amount, irrespective of the original level. The decibel's logarithmic scale, in which a doubling of power or intensity always causes an increase of approximately 3 dB, corresponds to this perception.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel#Merits
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Old January 8th, 2010, 02:06 PM   #3750
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[In German:]
Quote:
Der Schalldruckpegel ist eine technische und keine psychoakustische Größe. Ein Rückschluss von Schalldruckpegel auf die wahrgenommene Empfindung ist nur sehr eingeschränkt möglich. Ganz allgemein lässt sich sagen, dass eine Erhöhung bzw. Senkung des Schalldruckpegels tendenziell auch ein lauter bzw. leiser wahrgenommenes Schallereignis hervorruft. Als Faustformel gilt, dass 10 dB Unterschied etwa als doppelte bzw. halbe Lautstärke wahrgenommen wird.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schalldruckpegel

That's why I asked...
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Old January 8th, 2010, 02:15 PM   #3751
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Hi guys!
Are they going to close motorways in the Netherlands during weekend???? Is is true?? Because of snow?
It's ridiculous!!
What will happen on Monday morning? How could I get Eindhoven driving from Groningen?
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/5...__.html?p=35,2
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Old January 8th, 2010, 02:36 PM   #3752
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They won't close motorways. Maybe some lanes, but not entire motorways.
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Old January 8th, 2010, 09:53 PM   #3753
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I dug a little bit in the financial background of the Dutch roads, taxes and expenditures:


ministry of finance

gives the following graph:
[IMG]http://i46.************/2h509hi.png[/IMG]

Accijns = excise duty. 80% is fuel excise, 20% alcohol and tobacco. That comes down to € 8.5 billion
BPM = vehicle registration fee at first purchase. Currently 142% of the market value. € 3.6 billion
Motorrijtuigenbelasting = monthly road tax. € 3.2 billion
Belasting zware motorrijtuigen = truck tax. € 0.1 billion

together: € 15.4 billion, excluding the 19% sales tax over fuels and vehicles. This would add another (50,000 vehicles * € 35,000 per vehicle * 0.19 = ) € 0.3 billion in vehicles and € 0.1 in sales tax over gasoline (don't know about diesel).

Together about € 16 billion in automobility related taxes.

Road budget for 2010: € 3.175 billion... source
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Old January 8th, 2010, 10:04 PM   #3754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Together about € 16 billion in automobility related taxes.

Road budget for 2010: € 3.175 billion... source
Don't think, that it is anyhow different elsewhere. Just relationship between tax and budget is different, principle is the same.
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Old January 8th, 2010, 10:42 PM   #3755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Accijns = excise duty. 80% is fuel excise, 20% alcohol and tobacco. That comes down to € 8.5 billion
You forget to mention you have to pay a 19% VAT (BTW) over these duties. That's an extra € 1.6 billion...
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:43 PM   #3756
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A hole got in the A2 near a sewage pipe at interchange Kruisdonk (near Maastricht). They have no idea about the cause yet, maybe it was caused by winter conditions, but it is also possible a leak or ground water washed away the foundation.

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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #3757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mappero View Post
I will say there are idiots. Not only they but also mostly Dutch drivers.



- stop driving like 119 km/h on the left lane and don't overtake others car several minutes! (like Germans say about label (NL) -->> nur links (fahren))
Do not you think you have called certain group of people in offensive way?
Some, after reading your post might call us, Poles as ppl having nothing to say just wanting to argue with and offend anther nations

How far are connected ecological isues and driving according to the traffic rules?

Last edited by piotr71; January 13th, 2010 at 03:54 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 04:16 PM   #3758
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Perhaps it was too strong.
I was angry after what we heard in Dutch radio on the first day of snow fall: "all accidents on motorways happened because of Polish drivers..." True is, Dutch drivers with this snow conditions and summer tires on wheels blame Polish about too fast driving but we (also Germans) have experiences in driving in winter conditions, Dutch not!
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Błędy na mapach w nawigacjach GPS i internecie

Been in: A, B, BIH, BR, C, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GE, GBR, H, HR, I, L, LT, MC, MEX, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, RD, RSM, S, SK, SLO, SRB, TR, UA, USA, V
Driven in: A, B, BIH, BR, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GBR, H, HR, I, L, MC, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, SK, SRB, TR, USA
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Old January 13th, 2010, 05:04 PM   #3759
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What a nonsense. Because Dutch newspapers and media usually give the identity (male, female, country), accidents where Polish are involved are much easier to notice than other accidents.

For instance;

* a 39 year old male was involved in the accident

vs

* a 28 year old male from Poland was involved in the accident

First of all, "involved" is something different than "caused", and you only need to read this a few times to get the idea that "all the accidents are caused by Poles".

The fact is, only 10% of the Dutch drivers have winter tires and most of them don't know squat about driving in the snow.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #3760
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you aren't too great at corners when it's snowing yourself, eh??
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