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Old January 30th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #3801
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If it is meant to eliminate a brrier, why it is above ground?
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Old January 30th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #3802
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Because the soil in western Netherlands is like noodle soup. If they wanted to depress it, it was probably a lot more expensive. Current price tag for this tunnel is € 115 million.

For instance, the much smaller (in terms of width) north-south subway line in Amsterdam is bored at an expense of € 250 million per km. This land tunnel is € 70 million per km.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 06:51 PM   #3803
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Not to mention the physical barrier will stay because of the Amsterdam-Rhine-Channel...
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Old January 30th, 2010, 06:55 PM   #3804
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But the difference is that a Canal is a more positive form of barrier which can be considered Nature Like, while a motorway surely cant
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Old January 31st, 2010, 02:09 AM   #3805
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They are both barriers anyway. Moreover, an above-tunnel can easily be converted into a giant "bump" if you fill the lateral edges with earth.

As for the soil of Netherlands, if I'm not wrong, one of the main problems are the fact they are very prone to water retention and, thus, very expensive to stabilize. But I heard than in Maastritch the underground bypass will be far easier to be built.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 03:39 AM   #3806
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because of the tunnel hey can built much more dwellings next to it.
with a solotion with just barriers there was much more distance to the road
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Old January 31st, 2010, 11:46 AM   #3807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
As for the soil of Netherlands, if I'm not wrong, one of the main problems are the fact they are very prone to water retention and, thus, very expensive to stabilize. But I heard than in Maastritch the underground bypass will be far easier to be built.
Maastricht is in the Limburg area, where the soil is much more solid. Limburg is somewhat hilly, while the whole Randstad is completely flat (apart from the dunes and dikes). Since hills aren't made of a substance that has the same viscosity as pea soup, the soil in Limburg is much stronger
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Old February 1st, 2010, 10:58 AM   #3808
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Do we have an extreme high quality air requirement? Because I have the feeling that only we (holland) spend so much money on a tunnel that is above ground just to meet air quality standards

and how can a tunnel help to "meet air quality standards"?

does it reduce the emmission?

imho it does increase problems because it concentrates the emissions to the two portals of the tunnels...
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Old February 1st, 2010, 11:39 AM   #3809
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There may be some ventilation shaft along the tunnel.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 06:51 PM   #3810
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There were quite some problems this morning due to snow. The A6 between Lelystad and Emmeloord has been closed for a few hours because the road surface was completely iced. The Ketelbrug (on this section of the A6) was closed because of jackknifed trucks that couldn't get up to the bridge (yes, even in this flat country we had this problem )
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Old February 1st, 2010, 09:49 PM   #3811
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What about precious salt?
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Old February 1st, 2010, 09:53 PM   #3812
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I kind of got the idea they didn't expect this much snow. When I woke up, there was 10 cm on my car. I got on the road and even the main roads were not plowed at all, it was a mess. However, after 9 am, temperatures got above zero and it started melting rather quickly, so the main roads were clean at noon.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 09:55 PM   #3813
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! Even do not tray to say something about travelling today.
I spent almost 5 hours in my car driving from Groningen to Eindhoven. Normally it takes 2,25-2,75 hrs.
On Friday I've just bought Garmin nav system with TMC and I thought is not working correct this morning. But it was OK. I wanted avoid traffic, but snow on secondary roads covered everything
Can I request any compensation from Dutch road department? I had cancelled my meetings, stay at work until 19:30, and so on...
They should put salt before morning!!
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Old February 1st, 2010, 10:14 PM   #3814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Because the soil in western Netherlands is like noodle soup. If they wanted to depress it, it was probably a lot more expensive. Current price tag for this tunnel is € 115 million.

For instance, the much smaller (in terms of width) north-south subway line in Amsterdam is bored at an expense of € 250 million per km. This land tunnel is € 70 million per km.
The Netherlands has an extensive network of Highways, considering much of the country is low-land. The cost of building roads in the NL must be much higher than other countries?
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Old February 1st, 2010, 10:26 PM   #3815
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It wasn't very expensive until the late 1970's. Many roads were built on artificial dikes.

The first time they came across these problems was in the late 1920's, when new roads were built to bypass cities. These weren't motorways yet, but as most roads used to run across river dikes, the concept of a new bypass was new, and they had problems with the soil a lot back then. The first motorway, A12 opened in 1937, and was also built on an artificial dike. This is a relatively cheap way of road construction, yet it has some impact on the landscape, which is very flat. A12 between Gouda and Utrecht is pronounced pretty well in the landscape because it is slightly elevated above the surrounding pastures.

Nowadays, road construction cost is much higher, even adjusted for inflation, due to numerous impact mitigation projects, increased labor and material cost, and not to mention bureaucracy, for the A2 tunnel in Maastricht, 1.000 official permits are needed, just to start construction.

It has to be noted any new dike or ramp in low-lying parts of the Netherlands require at least one year of consolidation before actual construction can begin. If they don't take this time, and start construction right away, the road will subside in a few years. This problem is visible on certain roads, most notably N3, N11 and A15 to my knowledge, which are like driving on a golf course, it goes up and down all the time.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 02:22 PM   #3816
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As for dykes, are the dike for future expansion of A4 between Rotterdam and Den Haag completely built already? On Google Earth it seems that it is only a matter of putting the tarmac over it.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 03:12 PM   #3817
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Yes, the embankment was built in the 1960's. However, as it didn't get maintenance or proper drainage, it isn't suitable for motorway constructiong right now, but it would be possible to rebuilt this embankment easily. My guess is the cheapest solution to construct A4 here would require like € 50 million. However, the motorway will be depressed, and partially covered, and the construction costs are more likely € 750 million.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 04:34 PM   #3818
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Which is ridiculous...

Long live Nimbyism in the Netherlands, a lot of people in that area want to conflicting things...

- The Goverment is bad, they don't solve our traffic problem, they should widen roads, so that I can drive to work properly
-The same goverment decides to build a Motorway to relieve the traffic in the Randstad, but oww noo... not in my backyard, we should'nt build this road because it might influence the peace in my neighbourhood..

Pfff its not that because of the motorway the noice problem will increase with a billion zillion dB... as the local politicians (SP) and unknowing people always seem to think..
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 06:47 PM   #3819
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How strong is the structure of the landtunnel? Are these just covers or is it a proper structure on top of which you can build other roads that intersect the motorway?
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 06:57 PM   #3820
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As far as I know, there are buildings and a park planned on top of it.
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