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Old February 2nd, 2010, 09:23 PM   #3821
bleetz
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In that case its a very impressive structure!
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 09:37 PM   #3822
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There were plans for a 262 meter skyscraper right next to it (almost twice the current tallest skyscraper in NL), but those plans were canceled recently. It wasn't a realistic plan anyway.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 01:22 AM   #3823
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An off topic question:

While driving from Eindhoven to Amsterdam in the end of last year I saw a massive structure that looked like a shopping mall that was at least 1 km. long. It was quite impressive. In one section it had a number of different expensive cars on display. I think it wasn't even finished then and I'm pretty sure that it was on the western side of A2. Anybody has a clue what it was?
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 01:31 AM   #3824
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Yeah, that's "The Wall" near Leidsche Rijn, just north of Utrecht. It is a noise barrier/office center/shopping center all in one. It's quite impressive and it looks good IMO
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 02:07 AM   #3825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The most ambitious urban plan in the next decade(s) will be the A10-south in Amsterdam.

Currently, this motorway has 6 lanes, 180.000 AADT and has a subway and railway running in the median. This corridor is over 150 meters wide.

The city of Amsterdam wants to put the whole thing underground, a 1.2 km tunnel with 12 lanes of motorway, a high-speed railway, regular railway and subway lines, in at least 9 tubes.

I doubt if this plan will come to fruition though, Amsterdam is already debt-laden with their north-south subway line completely running out of hand financially.

It's a project from the national government mainly, so the city of Amsterdam will not take the financial risks.

This is what they agreed upon after many years of negotiation, renegotiation and sobering of plans. I'm quite confident that this will be constructed.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 03:22 PM   #3826
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Why everything seems so complicated when Amsterdam-related projects are on the table? Is it a misleading impression I have or some particularity of Amsterdam politics or government strucutre make any tramway, subway, freeway of whatever project to take much longer discussion and controversy than in the rest of the country?
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 06:30 PM   #3827
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Being a "big" city projects in Amsterdam are some of the more complicated ones but I would say Amsterdam is no exception in the Netherlands. For instance a proposed tramway in Groningen is also causing a lot of controversy. Working on projects like that over here must be a very frustrating experience.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 06:45 PM   #3828
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I think there are only a few countries in Europe where "progress" goes as slow as in the Netherlands, considering the wealth in these countries. Belgium and the UK come to mind. We have enough financial means to construct a lot more than we do now, whether these are roads, railroads, buildings or other public works.

It took 10 years before the problems on A2 were acknowledged by the government, another 10 years before they actually started building, and another 5 years to build it. Solutions now are based on problems 25 years ago. That is why current road projects are sometimes not enough to cope with current traffic.

A2 is an example where the initial plans to add just one lane were expanded to adding two lanes immediately. A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht was planned to be widened to 2x4 lanes, but is now being widened to 2x5 lanes immediately. Further south, the A2 between Everdingen and Deil was planned to be widened from 2x2 to 2x3, but is now being widened to 2x4, simply because traffic grew faster than the government talked and was getting into procedures.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 07:32 PM   #3829
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The problem is that people can't stand change.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 04:33 AM   #3830
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Chris: you shouldn't complain! I think that when it comes to infrastructure, the Netherlands is as good as it gets in Europe. I was very impressed with your roads and the amount of construction that I saw. I can't think of anywhere in Europe where infrastructure is better, apart from some German regions. Also, given that you guys are building it in worse conditions than most others (quality of land), you should really be proud of what you already have. Every time I drive in the Netherlands I think "we are never catching up with this". I don't generally get that feeling elsewhere in Europe, apart from some German regions.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 10:14 AM   #3831
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The quality of the pavement is very good yes, but most of these motorways were constructed in an era where the Netherlands had 10 - 12 million inhabitants. Today it has 16.5 million people, and 400 km of congestion every rush hour on the motorways.

The economic damage of traffic congestion is already more than the government budget for roads.

You will catch up with this. Remember our first motorway opened in 1937, and the network still has annoying missing links of approximately 10 km which have been on the planning boards for 5 decades. The Netherlands also has the highest traffic volumes, relative to capacity. 70,000 - 100,000 is not uncommon on 2x2 motorways, and 150,000 - 180,000 is happening on 2x3 motorways. NL doesn't need many new motorways, but we do need wider ones.

Most construction today is happening along A2, but much more transportation routes need such an overhaul. If you see that Germany is widening many Autobahnen by the dozens of kilometers at the time, and we're still dicking around with shoulder running...

I could make a list of motorways that need a widening. It's long.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 10:32 AM   #3832
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I decided to make that list, of necessary widenings between 1990 and 2025.

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Old February 4th, 2010, 01:42 PM   #3833
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Seven lanes Sounds really nice.
A28 Meppel - Zwolle and A7 Groningen West - Groningen East in thhis cases I agree totally with you Chris
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Old February 4th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #3834
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2x7 lanes is necessary because different traffic flows from and to the Amsterdam metropolitan area are concentrated on just one link: A1. Current plans call for a 2x5+2 configuration, with two tidal lanes, so 7 lanes per rush hour direction. However, there are no realistic completion dates yet, and that is the main problem in NL, they talk and talk, but it takes over a decade to get construction started on average, and that is after problems are acknowledged by the government. Like I said before, current solutions are based on problems 25 years ago.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 02:30 PM   #3835
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Oh no! So is longer then in Poland even...
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Old February 4th, 2010, 06:24 PM   #3836
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Why didn't you add the A2 Amsterdam-Utrecht? Because it is already being widened?

By the way, AFAIK the A10 is 2×2 on the north side of Amsterdam.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 06:28 PM   #3837
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Yep.

The decision to widen A2 was already taken in 1995. It took 13 years before construction started! If it is completed in 2012, we're 17 years after the decision was taken. This section was already problematic in the late 1980's, but mostly around Utrecht, nowadays, the entire section from interchange Holendrecht to interchange Oudenrijn is jammed, divided in two or three traffic jams of 7 - 12 km. If there was an accident or lane closure, traffic jam could start as far south as Geldermalsen, which is like 60 kilometers south of Amsterdam.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 11:27 PM   #3838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
By the way, AFAIK the A10 is 2×2 on the north side of Amsterdam.
No, A10 is complete 2x3 except for A10-west between Coenplein and s102.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 11:34 PM   #3839
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Sorry, I confused myself with that part, since it's also partly north of the IJ (as most of the A10-noord)
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Old February 5th, 2010, 09:43 PM   #3840
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Frost damage on A28 near Wezep. Notice the amount of debris on the shoulder, this is currently a very common sight in the Netherlands. I was driving on A1 today, and it was really dotted with patched asphalt.

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