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Old March 25th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #4021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Visualization of the future A1 aqueduct near Muiden. At 14 lanes, this will be the world's widest aqueduct. The estimated AADT for 2020 is 310,000 vehicles per day.
Gosh, this is even worse than in US
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Old March 25th, 2010, 01:18 AM   #4022
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Originally Posted by Curz View Post
Gosh, this is even worse than in US
It's common for highways in The Netherlands to have very high traffic counts because they don't have nearly as many urban freeways and alternative connections like in US.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 01:20 AM   #4023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I made a map based on several EIS documents which give 2020 traffic volumes.
Thanks a lot. And also thanks for the link, although I didn't understand much of it.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 02:12 AM   #4024
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It's common for highways in The Netherlands to have very high traffic counts because they don't have nearly as many urban freeways and alternative connections like in US.
OK, one would even say that this is not that bad for a semi-rural highway, but nevertheless, shouldn't Holland invest more in the railway than in individual commute?
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- To śmieszne, że tramwaj przemierza ten odcinek w 7 minut z przystankami na trasie, o wiele szybciej niż auto - mówi Anna Omar.- Gdybym mogła przesiadłabym się na tramwaj.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 03:21 AM   #4025
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OK, one would even say that this is not that bad for a semi-rural highway, but nevertheless, shouldn't Holland invest more in the railway than in individual commute?
Wow, I'm living here just for a year, but (AFAIK) there has been massive investments in rail transport too... The country has the densest rail network in Europe, almost every station has at least 2x hour service, a lot of intercity services, the HSL-Zuid...

So, no, in my opinion the Dutch case is the best representation about the limits of investment in railways in modern Western societies: there will be, still, a huge demand for car transportation, regardless of the thousands of bike paths (many of them segregated), discount cards for trains etc.

There are a lot of people who commute from city to city in The Netherlands, too, and if you account for the time it takes for one get to the train station from his house, travel by train, then get local transport for work again, even with congestion it is still faster to use the car in many cases.

Anyhow, I guess the locals and the guy who has the best collection of road threads can answer you better than me.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 11:16 AM   #4026
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Quote:
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OK, one would even say that this is not that bad for a semi-rural highway, but nevertheless, shouldn't Holland invest more in the railway than in individual commute?
Studies have shown traffic volumes would drop by 0 - 2% if significant investment in mass transit was an option. That means for example A1 wouldn't get 311,000 AADT, but 305,000 AADT. In other words; mass transit has no relevance in road traffic. Those who are able to use mass transit are already doing so.

And, like Suburbanist already said, mass transit already offers high frequency and density. Where rural villages in other countries have like 4 - 5 buses per day, Dutch villages have 1 or 2 buses per hour.

But, despite the large number of traffic jams, there is not as much competition between the two modes as is sometimes suggested.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 11:46 AM   #4027
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I got it from the "ontwerp-tracébesluit" of Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (SAA). Similar figures are also mentioned in the A4 Delft - Schiedam and A13-A16 MER studies (EIS).
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Old March 25th, 2010, 05:05 PM   #4028
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In this corridor, public transportation is already pretty good.

For instance, there are currently 6 train connections per hour between Almere and Schiphol/Amsterdam South, and between Almere and Amsterdam Central. There are also buses, etc. But the capacity is still not enough.

So the national government has announced €1,35 billion worth of plans to improve public transportation in this corridor as well. An expected 80.000 people per day will make a trip between Almere and Amsterdam by public transport.

So the Dutch are investing heavily in public transportation as well.

More info in Dutch:
http://www.verkeerenwaterstaat.nl/on...n/ovsaal.aspx/

Last edited by woutero; March 25th, 2010 at 05:31 PM.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 05:31 PM   #4029
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Let's say is a Dutch problem with traffic on these motorways/highways. Cause the worst idea is everyone in The Netherlands start work at 9:00 and end at 17:00-17:30. So the worst traffic are only twice a day (8:00-9:00) and (17:00-18:00). Before and after these peak hours you can easily travel without traffic.
Second issue is Dutch people commute from one city to another city using only motorways but in fact this is only 30-40 km commuting so compare to other European countries means - they commute inside the city. Normally you have more possibility to choose different, parallel roads but in The Netherlands you have only motorways and not through local traffic roads...
Someone mentioned about InterCity connections 2-4 times per hour. They can provide such a number of trains but we should remember it is small country so distance between cities is small and the same train can operates many times per day. Dutch IC train standard is still below European Railway Standard. NS could called these trains SnelTrein instead.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 05:41 PM   #4030
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Quote:
Let's say is a Dutch problem with traffic on these motorways/highways. Cause the worst idea is everyone in The Netherlands start work at 9:00 and end at 17:00-17:30. So the worst traffic are only twice a day (8:00-9:00) and (17:00-18:00). Before and after these peak hours you can easily travel without traffic.
Rush hours last much longer than that. The first traffic jams appear around 6 am, and the most are gone by 10 am. The main peak is between 7 am and 9 am. The rush home starts around 3 pm and lasts until 7 pm, with the worst between 4.30 pm and 6 pm.

The off-peak traffic volumes are generally only 15 - 20% lower than the peak volumes. It doesn't take much to have a traffic jam last all day. The level of service is around C-D for most of the off-peak hours, which is a mediocre flow, but not congested.

Or in other terms, the off-peak volumes have an intensity / capacity (I/C) ratio between 0.7 and 0.8 which means it is close to disruptions in flow. The Coen tunnel (A10) has an I/C ratio of 1.2 This means traffic volumse exceed the theoretical capacity by 20%! Talk about saturated roads...
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Old March 25th, 2010, 06:36 PM   #4031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Studies have shown traffic volumes would drop by 0 - 2% if significant investment in mass transit was an option.
Chris, do you have a source for this research? Is it a general study, or something specific for the Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere corridor?

I would guess that in a place like this corridor the % would be higher (due to concentration of employment around train stations and restrictive parking policies in many areas).
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Old March 25th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #4032
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I got it from the "ontwerp-tracébesluit" of Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (SAA). Similar figures are also mentioned in the A4 Delft - Schiedam and A13-A16 MER studies (EIS).

(I'll add links later)

edit:
OTB Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (p32)

Quote:
Investeringen in het openbaar vervoer, bijvoorbeeld via een IJmeerverbinding, leveren naar schatting een vermindering van het autoverkeer op van maximaal 2%.
translation:
"investments in mass transit, for example an IJmeer connection, reduce car traffic by a maximum of 2%".

Trajectnota A13-A16 Rotterdam (p42)

Quote:
Optimalisatie openbaar vervoer. Het openbaar vervoer in de regio wordt door de HSL, Randstadrail en Tramplus sterk verbeterd. Er zijn maar beperkte andere mogelijkheden voor verdere uitbreiding van het openbaar vervoer in de periode tot 2020. Op grond van aanvullend onderzoek is verder geconcludeerd, dat de effecten van een aanvullend openbaar vervoersscenario nauwelijks merkbaar zijn op de weg. Een sterke verbetering van het openbaar vervoer leidt tot een afname van het verkeer op de A13 en de A20 met 0 % tot 1 %.
translation:
"optimalization mass transit. Mass transit in the region is improved significantly by the construction of HSR, Randstadrail and Tramplus. There are few possibilities for further expansion of mass transit until 2020. Based on additional surveys, it became clear that effects of enhanced mass transit are barely visible on the roads. A strong investment in mass transit will reduce traffic on A13 and A20 by 0% to 1%".

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; March 25th, 2010 at 06:54 PM.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #4033
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Some pics I took today with a Panasonic Lumix of A28 just north of Zwolle.

image hosted on flickr


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Old March 26th, 2010, 02:10 AM   #4034
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24 hours timelapse at the ring road (A10) in Amsterdam:




Source: Het Parool (local newspaper)
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Old March 26th, 2010, 02:30 AM   #4035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I made a map based on several EIS documents which give 2020 traffic volumes.

image hosted on flickr
Awewome map, but isn't it just missing the A5 extension in Amsterdam area?
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Old March 26th, 2010, 10:43 AM   #4036
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Yes, but the projected A5 traffic volumes are included (96,000 on 2x2).
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Old March 26th, 2010, 10:52 AM   #4037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
24 hours timelapse at the ring road (A10) in Amsterdam:
Cool video. You can clearly see how the Coen Tunnel works as a funnel, congestion southbound isn't very bad because it mostly backs up north of the tunnel (A10/A8/A7), and congestion northbound is worse.

This video seems to be taken last winter. I think it shows less congestion than usual because 1) traffic volumes are 10% lower in the first two months of the year), and 2) traffic is reduced by another 5 - 10% due to the recession.

However, it looks like that fully stationary traffic on A10 is rare (apart from incidents).

The Coen Tunnel is noted for having the highest traffic volume of any 2x2 road in the Netherlands at 120,000 AADT. This represents an I/C ratio of 1.2 - 1.3 which is 20 - 30% more traffic than is theoretically thought posssible. It also means there is no way people follow the 2 second rule.
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Old March 29th, 2010, 07:27 PM   #4038
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Some traffic jam pics I took this morning. I was on A28 towards Utrecht around 10.30 am, and of course traffic jammed at interchange Hoevelaken. The last 3 km took me an half an hour.

image hosted on flickr


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A Finnish truck. You don't see too many of these.
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The A1 collector/distributor was jammed as well, because traffic from A1 cannot merge on A28.
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I think this cloverleaf is one of the busiest in Europe.
image hosted on flickr


De stroopwafels of koeken van Tjeerd zijn nooit verkeerd.
"The syrup waffles and cookies of Tjeerd are always good" (it rhymes in Dutch)
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Old March 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #4039
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Are there any plans to build an at-least partial ring road in Leeuwarden? It would provide a faster route from the Afsluidijk to Groningen and beyond, though I'm not sure about the traffic up north there.
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Old March 29th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #4040
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Yeah, actually procedures are pretty advanced on the N31 expressway around Leeuwarden, the record of decision has already been taken and works should start this year.
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