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Old October 6th, 2007, 01:35 AM   #401
Nephasto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
Yeah, here, we're notorious for quoting driving in hours, not distances. I have really no clue how far it is in kilometers to such and such a place, but easily could give you the route distance in how long it would take on average to get there.

Distance (km's) is a precise measurement, unlike time, which are just averages.

For example, for a given distance of 300km's between 2 cities, people could say it takes 3/3.5hours, but it's also possible to do it in 2.5 hours, or even 2 hours.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 03:12 AM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
But, I do love your rail system. I would die to have something like that liking up say Southern Ontario (between Toronto, Detroit, and Buffalo, linking up all the cities) But we love our cars too much!
Many in the NL actually look down on people using public transport. In this country we basically have traffic jams because people want to pick their nose in privacy. You may find this silly, but the famous French film director showed this in his film Trafic, no kidding.

Not just picking their noses of course, listening to their Coldplay CDs, waking up, shaving, having breakfast, you know those yoghurt based fruit juices with 'extra' grains. The traffic jam is just a way of life.

Most car drivers would be shocked noticing other people on a train or in a bus. They might carry germs for example; their raincoats might smell of the dogs they have.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 03:41 AM   #403
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All these traffic jams have a pretty hefty price tag attached to them as well, costing the Dutch economy around 2 - 2.5 billion euro a year.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 09:43 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02
haha...nope..i was there for 2.5 weeks, was completley clueless! I didn't find I felt connected to the country (my grandparents moved to Canada in the 1950s), and actually enjoyed being in England alot better than the Netherlands. No offense, but I found Amsterdam to be very grimy, dirty and unspectacular, and the rest of the country pretty boring, not to mention ridiculously tiny!!!! (I'm Canadian, which would explain it) :P . But I was in London, England right before that, where they do speak my language (I speak English, and a bit of French), so it was easier to get along, and London is a world class city if you ask me. Amsterdam, not so much.
Amsterdam is such a bad example for our country as a whole. Visit some cities like Groningen, Utrecht, Arnhem, Nijmegen, Maastricht and you will see some more real dutch cities. Amsterdam does just anything to attract tourists. It satisfies tourists by confirming the prejudices of our country, but it doesn't say much about Holland at all. As an internal tourist, I like Amsterdam just because of the geographical (the water, infrastructure, old buildings etc.) aspects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02
and London is a world class city if you ask me. Amsterdam, not so much.
Don't forget the difference in size. Amsterdam only has 700.000 inhabitants. I've never been in London, but I heard from some old schoolmates the city is (compared to its size) a bit boring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle
About the tiny thing, some people are talking about "that long long drive to Groningen from Zwolle" (100km). Nah most are not used to distances over 80km. Not for me, i often drive 600km a day. Last week i drove 3000km
I remember the first time talking to some girl in Amsterdam: "You came here all the way up from limburg? You poor boy!" I really couldn't resist my laugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02
But, I do love your rail system. I would die to have something like that liking up say Southern Ontario
Our PT system is pretty good, indeed, though it's often known as unreliable. However, our cities are not that big, so it's (time-technicly) for most of the trips not a good alternative for the car (which declares our big problems with traffic jams)
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Old October 7th, 2007, 08:35 PM   #405
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Some pics of the recently opened A35, a bypass of the city of Almelo (75.000 pop).

1. Last traffic light; Wierden-West.
[IMG]http://i23.************/20gi9uo.jpg[/IMG]

2. Entering the final piece of N35.
[IMG]http://i23.************/2je3dhg.jpg[/IMG]

3. Exit Wierden. Now partially under construction.
[IMG]http://i21.************/29beyxu.jpg[/IMG]

4. Sign for through traffic. No sign of any German destination yet.
[IMG]http://i21.************/67r04m.jpg[/IMG]

5. Wooden noise-reducing shields.
[IMG]http://i21.************/20prfkg.jpg[/IMG]

6. Exit Wierden.
[IMG]http://i23.************/1767th.jpg[/IMG]

7. Entering the 2x2 motorway. On the left a quarter "tunnel". This section is build partially under ground level, so noise won't affect the new neighborhood of Wierden which will be build.
[IMG]http://i21.************/2vry4pl.jpg[/IMG]

8. Bridge over the A35, and entrance from the Wierden exit.
[IMG]http://i24.************/29q1buc.jpg[/IMG]

9. The entrance lane merges into the exit lane of exit Wierden-West (N36).
[IMG]http://i20.************/15s8qb8.jpg[/IMG]

10. Deventer is not logical here. They better signed Osnabrück.
[IMG]http://i21.************/213no5g.jpg[/IMG]

11. Local traffic can't take the N36 exit, because of the reconstruction of the Twentecanal bridge. Hardenberg and Ommen are regional destinations in the north and northeast of the province Overijssel.
[IMG]http://i21.************/2regrb4.jpg[/IMG]

12. Very decent asphalt.
[IMG]http://i22.************/6tpac8.jpg[/IMG]

13. Another bridge. SOS telephones are sightable on both sides.
[IMG]http://i21.************/ve2cs7.jpg[/IMG]

14. Entering the viaduct over the Twentecanal.
[IMG]http://i23.************/6ru6om.jpg[/IMG]

15. Exit Almelo-Zuid. Important exit. Ootmarsum is a (scenic) village near the German border.
[IMG]http://i24.************/2ihxrhc.jpg[/IMG]

16. Sign says; Twentecanal, branch Almelo.
[IMG]http://i24.************/2rogfp0.jpg[/IMG]

17. The area around exit Almelo-Zuid will be developed in the next years.
[IMG]http://i21.************/2142p76.jpg[/IMG]

18. 600m exit sign.
[IMG]http://i24.************/20ub90j.jpg[/IMG]

19. Still no German destination. They will be showed at the second interchange.
[IMG]http://i23.************/smzzx2.jpg[/IMG]

20. The exit itself.
[IMG]http://i23.************/2ugdrm0.jpg[/IMG]

21. Weird configuration of the lanes near Almelo-Zuid. Check next pics.
[IMG]http://i20.************/16bmzhd.jpg[/IMG]

22. the situation; 2 lanes from exit Almelo-Zuid, one immediatly tapers into the motorway lane, the right one becomes a regular motorway lane. The left motorway lane dissapears. I'm not aware of such situations anywhere else in the Netherlands.
[IMG]http://i20.************/2zj9euq.jpg[/IMG]

23. Interchange Azelo is closing fast. This part was existing.
[IMG]http://i21.************/sbiwxg.jpg[/IMG]

24. Still no German destinations, only some cities nearby.
[IMG]http://i23.************/10r3ayd.jpg[/IMG]

25. Dutch Ford Ka ambulance
[IMG]http://i20.************/316nnsi.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 7th, 2007, 08:41 PM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
Yeah, here, we're notorious for quoting driving in hours, not distances. I have really no clue how far it is in kilometers to such and such a place, but easily could give you the route distance in how long it would take on average to get there.
Just out of curiosity...if I say Budapest-Debrecen 1:30hrs(true number,I did it),what does that tell you? What is the distance?
Other example...Budapest-Nyíregyháza 2:30hrs(true,again). What is that distance?

Last edited by RawLee; October 7th, 2007 at 08:46 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Just out of curiosity...if I say Budapest-Debrecen 1:30hrs(true number,I did it),what does that tell you? What is the distance?
Other example...Budapest-Nyíregyháza 2:30hrs(true,again). What is that distance?
go_leafs_go was referring to the fact that distances here are so large, that we often quote them in hours, which is a good estimate of the amount of time it will take me to drive somewhere. That's all it tells me. I can estimate the distance from the times you gave me, assuming you are referring to driving on the motorway without a traffic jam, but that's not the point. The times basically give you comparative information with other destinations.

For example, you said Budapest-Debrecen is 1:30 hours. That's approximately what it takes me to drive from Toronto to Niagara Falls. Hence, I'd say it's just over 100km, perhaps around 120km. However, if I am driving to Montreal, it's usually more useful for me to know that it takes around 6 hours, not that it's about 600km.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:07 PM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
go_leafs_go was referring to the fact that distances here are so large, that we often quote them in hours, which is a good estimate of the amount of time it will take me to drive somewhere. That's all it tells me. I can estimate the distance from the times you gave me, assuming you are referring to driving on the motorway without a traffic jam, but that's not the point. The times basically give you comparative information with other destinations.

For example, you said Budapest-Debrecen is 1:30 hours. That's approximately what it takes me to drive from Toronto to Niagara Falls. Hence, I'd say it's just over 100km, perhaps around 120km. However, if I am driving to Montreal, it's usually more useful for me to know that it takes around 6 hours, not that it's about 600km.
Both Budapest-Debrecen and Budapest-Nyíregyháza around 230km. The difference is that one is all way motorway,and the other is last ~50km normal road(motorway inaugurated in like a month,since then,thats 1:30 too)
We measure distance in time too,but usually add the distance if the other speaker is unfamiliar with the approx distance.

Last edited by RawLee; October 7th, 2007 at 10:18 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:20 PM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Both Budapest-Debrecen and Budapest-Nyíregyháza around 230km. The difference is that one is all way motorway,and the other is last ~50km normal road(motorway inaugurated in like a month,since then,thats 1:30 too)
Well, of course, I understand what you're saying. But at the end, what mostly matters to you, the driver, is how much time you'll be spending driving. Lastly, it doesn't mean that we don't know about or don't use distances All that was meant is that distances are so large that for further destinations, the drive is so long that if I tell you that something is 5 hours away, it doesn't matter if it'll be 4.5 hours or even 6 hours, because in such a long journey time is a good estimate.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Some pics of the recently opened A35, a bypass of the city of Almelo (75.000 pop).
Another great Dutch motorway! I can't stop admiring the construction quality of your roads

Quote:
9. The entrance lane merges into the exit lane of exit Wierden-West (N36).
<img>
Do you mean that this is a full clover leaf interchange? Are they very common in NL?
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
Another great Dutch motorway! I can't stop admiring the construction quality of your roads
I think you should check out every european motorway topic Especially the newcomers have very good motorways(because their roads are new)
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:30 PM   #412
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Quote:
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Do you mean that this is a full clover leaf interchange? Are they very common in NL?
Nope, the exits are very close to eachother, so the entrance/acceleration lane of Exit Wierden goes immediatly into the exit lane of Wierden/N36
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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:40 PM   #413
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As a Swede I get the Canadian Guy . In Sweden probably Norway too, we say so and so many hours, not mil(1mil=10km) or km. While the danes always say it in km. It's probably because distances in Euro-countries are so small so it matter's how aggressive you drive and the volume of traffic. In the EU 40km means a lot moore, than what 30 min do. 30 min of what? rush hour? or no traffic?

Last edited by denvise; October 7th, 2007 at 10:51 PM.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 12:13 AM   #414
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That looks like a high-quality motorway! You really put money in this. That interchange is a bit confusing though, never seen it.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 01:55 AM   #415
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It's funny to notice the really short distances signed.
There is no distance signs indicating anything farther away than 50kms!
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Old October 8th, 2007, 01:31 PM   #416
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That says something about our average distances. The're quite low. For instance, it's quite normal here to work 2 or 3 cities further, but because of the small distances between the cities >100km is for usual 'every-day-driving' quite much. I thought the average commuter distance was about 20 kms. So that declares (for a big part) our small distances on the signs.

However, there's a system in it. Let's take this picture. The first destination is the next exit, so you won't take the wrong one when you want to exit at Almelo-Zuid. The second one, Enschede, is the end of the A35 and also the biggest city of the Twenthe region. The third one is a corner destination for the A1 in western direction. The only thing is missing here is a destination for the A1 in eastern direction. In this case: a german city (Osnabrück, Hannover or something like that). That would make it complete.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 02:59 PM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
That looks like a high-quality motorway! You really put money in this. That interchange is a bit confusing though, never seen it.
Should I risk it?....
Yep, I will! This motorway is so fantastic, it is even better than the Struma!
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Old October 8th, 2007, 03:48 PM   #418
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Motorway is good, but distance and exit signs are not very good. They should put an arrow only on those signs that immediately precede the exit, not those that are 1200m or 600m away from the exit. However, I really like the planning of Dutch (and German also) city streets. Also, I think that the Dutch road marking is superb!
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Old October 8th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
I think that the Dutch road marking is superb!
On motorways; yes, but i would strongly reconsider that opinion about non-motorways.

They make the roadview quite inconsequent, there are tons of different markings, mostly not meeting the so called "suggestions on road markings". For instant the stroboscopic/eleptic dashed side markings sucks bigtime.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 09:17 PM   #420
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I especially like these signs:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
With red rectangle (on motorways (A*)) it looks much better though.

Last edited by Verso; October 8th, 2007 at 09:24 PM.
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