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Old June 25th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #4281
Slagathor
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No thank you. Cleaning up Belgium would be vastly too expensive.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 09:17 PM   #4282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanPaulo View Post
Not to get off-topic but as a road and map navigator I am lost without cardinal directions. Cardinal directions makes travel easier for one might not know or remember all the names of cities and towns but for sure one knows you are traveling "south" if you are going, say, from Milan to Rome.

In my humble opinion, it would be terrific if Europe implemented cardinal directions on primary roads. Because of the different languages, I think the directions should be in the official language of each country plus English. Simple like that. Just like signs in countries where the official language does not use roman alphabet (i.e. UAE, Israel, Korea, China, etc.).

Another solution would be to use a symbol since Europe signage is mostly based on symbols. It could be a cardinal rose or north arrow or some other type of icon where the direction is accentuated or highlighted. Just my opinion though.
That is why in most cases the "control" (i.e. displayed) city will be the biggest. So if you are heading from Milan to, say, Reggio nell'Emiglia, you will follow the signs for Bologna. If you are heading to Rome, than you will follow "Firenze" after Bologna. It requires some basic geographical knowledge, or a decent map. So everyone gets used to it quickly...
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Old June 27th, 2010, 04:12 PM   #4283
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Good news about the widening of A4 north of Leiden. It will be opened 6 months ahead of schedule. The old Ringvaart aquaduct is being twinned.

The widened section of 2x3 lanes is indicated on the map below. Then it's waiting for the last section near Leiden to be widened to 2x3 (currently U/C)


I still believe the A4 should be widened to 8 lanes between Leidschendam and Interchange Burgerveen (A44). I think the demand for this road is underestimated, a lot of people now use either A44 or N207. The current 2x2 volume is already around 100.000 vehicles per day, and above 150.000, 2x3 also becomes too narrow.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 06:16 PM   #4284
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Construction of the second Coen Tunnel (A10) in Amsterdam is coming around quite nicely.

pics here
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Old June 29th, 2010, 06:23 PM   #4285
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Some months/years ago you said that the A8 was not prolonged untill the A9 because of the Coen tunnel bottleneck. Do I remember well? There are still no plans?
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Old June 29th, 2010, 06:23 PM   #4286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Another example of how narrow Dutch main roads are.

This is provincial highway N301 in Nijkerk. It carries over 20,000 vehicles per day. The truck has about 10 cm left between the road markings, and the "shoulders" aren't exactly generous either.
image hosted on flickr

lol, this is just laughable. how can this be considered a highway?
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Old June 29th, 2010, 06:30 PM   #4287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Some months/years ago you said that the A8 was not prolonged untill the A9 because of the Coen tunnel bottleneck. Do I remember well? There are still no plans?
Ehm, no A8 would mostly cater traffic from the new suburbs north of Amsterdam (Purmerend, Zaandam, etc.) to the region of Haarlem and IJmuiden (major job centers).

A5 wouldn't be constructed without the 2nd Coen Tunnel, and the 2nd Coen Tunnel wouldn't be constructed without A5.

A5 is currently being extended from interchange Raasdorp (A9) to the second Coen Tunnel (A10). That way, through traffic doesn't have to use the A10 Western ring road. A5 will partially be an elevated highway, one of the first in the Netherlands.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #4288
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The new N36 bypass of the town of Ommen opened yesterday. I drove it that very same day and took a few pics. (You've seen construction pics before on this thread, if you want to see them, click here)

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17 BONUS:
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Old June 29th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #4289
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Wow, the color of the pavement looks so surreal! its looks so brand new! What is the white/green/white line for?
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Old June 29th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #4290
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It's a sort of fake meridian.. It means that a 100km/h speed limit is in force
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Old June 30th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #4291
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Nice road... If it only had a proper curbside... I know land is scarce in Netherlands, but yet I can see they need to work on the sides of the carriageways anyway. What would be the problem putting an extra 80cm of asphalt pavement there???
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Old June 30th, 2010, 11:48 AM   #4292
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They think it encourages speeding. We have the narrowest design standards for main roads too (2.75 m per lane!)
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:25 PM   #4293
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In my opinion is sick! Especially if you driving something with 2.5m wide...
It's going to be very unpleasant country for driving. No wide roads, more downgraded speed limits, tax policy for small cars and engines and the best! tax road per kilometres.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:30 PM   #4294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mappero View Post
In my opinion is sick! Especially if you driving something with 2.5m wide...
It's going to be very unpleasant country for driving. No wide roads, more downgraded speed limits, tax policy for small cars and engines and the best! tax road per kilometres.
The width of the lanes is the least of our problems. And if it pushes governments to stimulate freight traffic by rail rather than road, I'm all for it. I hate trucks.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:36 PM   #4295
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The width of the lanes is the least of our problems. And if it pushes governments to stimulate freight traffic by rail rather than road, I'm all for it. I hate trucks.
How can you push freight to rail when the Pro Rail network is already at or above capacity with passenger trains only for 19 hours a day?
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:36 PM   #4296
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I hate truck also
I was writing about buses and coaches
IMO NL is to small for freight traffic on rail. Maybe for export and import but for internal logistic rail transport will be less productive.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:40 PM   #4297
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Domestic rail freight is only marginal compared to the truck tonnage. How much trucks did the Betuweroute freight railway reduce from the roads? Nothing, it replaces shipping to Duisburg, and a shift from rail freight from other railway lines to Betuweroute. In a small country like the Netherlands, rail freight is far too inflexible to be of any solution.

Trucks are something we have to live with, and there will be even more in the future. That's why we need to widen more motorways to six lanes. The Veluwe motorways (A1, A28 and A50) are annoyingly full of trucks as well.

figures 2006:
A1 Amersfoort - Apeldoorn: 11,000 trucks
A28 Amersfoort - Zwolle: 11,000 trucks
A50 Apeldoorn - Zwolle: 10,000 trucks

If you consider a car-equivalent of 2.3 per truck, you'll see 11,000 trucks take the capacity of almost one lane per direction. (the equivalent of 25.300 vehicles per day, imagine that on a two-lane road, it's full.)

Domestic freight in tonnage:

Road: 651.505.000 tonnes
Rail: 5.441.000 tonnes

So domestic rail freight has a share of a staggering 0.83% compared to roads.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; June 30th, 2010 at 12:47 PM.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:41 PM   #4298
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How can you push freight to rail when the Pro Rail network is already at or above capacity with passenger trains only for 19 hours a day?
The Betuweroute is operating well beneath capacity. We'd do well to start with that one and relieve the A1 of some serious freight volumes. Our waterways also have some capacity left. The government needs to step in with some proper stimulating legislation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mappero View Post
I hate truck also
I was writing about buses and coaches
IMO NL is to small for freight traffic on rail. Maybe for export and import but for internal logistic rail transport will be less productive.
Most of our freight traffic is between the seaports of Rotterdam and Amsterdam and the German Ruhr area. We're very much a transit nation, that's a key problem of our traffic congestion.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 01:12 PM   #4299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Domestic freight in tonnage:

Road: 651.505.000 tonnes
Rail: 5.441.000 tonnes

So domestic rail freight has a share of a staggering 0.83% compared to roads.
You should compare tonnes*km, not only the weight. 1000 tonnes doing 1 km by road plus 1 tonne doing 1000 km by train makes a rail share of 0,1% by weight but a 50% share by tonnes*km.

Modal split in the Netherlands considering tonnes*km is about 45% waterways, 5% trains and 50% trucks. I don't think train can be used more for internal traffic as the network is congested, but it could help for traffic transiting from the ports to Germany.

The Betuweroute requires trains capable to run with 25 kV AC and ETCS signalling systems, and still today not all trains have them. Trains not equipped must use the old lines. Another problem is that to go to Germany 4 voltage AC/DC locos with ATB signalling system are needed because two short parts are electrified in 1500 V DC with ATB. If Netherlands convert them to 25 kV and ETCS, then trains could run with 2 voltage AC and ETCS only locos, wich are less expensive and complicated.

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...ux/benelux.gif
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Old June 30th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #4300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
You should compare tonnes*km, not only the weight. 1000 tonnes doing 1 km by road plus 1 tonne doing 1000 km by train makes a rail share of 0,1% by weight but a 50% share by tonnes*km.
Unfortunately, the Dutch statistical bureau CBS doesn't publishes tonne-kilometers for rail freight (they do for road freight, about 70.000 * 1.000.000 tonne kilometers.)

I assume rail freight is less efficient because container and bulk is usually one-way transport. Empty mileage is probably much bigger with trains than trucks.
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