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Old October 9th, 2007, 02:50 AM   #421
go_leafs_go02
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Yes. I was quite impressed by your highway standards. Signage is pretty good too on the main moterways (being the A-series of Highways).

I loved your variable speed limit signage that could be found in more urban areas. Those were very slick.

One thing I was quite surprised by though was the lack of shoulders on major roads. It only seemed to be on the expressways where they were found. Any other route, even if the speed limit was 100 km/h had no place to pull over onto a paved or gravel shoulder.

I'm North American, so thats just the standard I've come to expect anywhere. But I assume there are reasons roads are so narrow when they are 2 X 1 lanes in width.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 10:17 AM   #422
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Why should there be shoulders on usual 2-lane roads? That's quite unusual, also for most of the other european countries. For the same amount of space you'd better build a small 2+1 or 2X2 profile
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Old October 9th, 2007, 10:22 AM   #423
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Chaos around Utrecht
On the A2 towards Amsterdam happened an accident with 7 cars early morning. A total gridlock was the result in the region. Around 9.15 am, still 270km of queue existed.

An queue of 32km existed on the A2 between Waardenburg and Utrecht-Oog in Al. The A12 was fully jammed over 23km towards the west. The nearby A27 was jammed aswell, 17km southbound, and 22km northbound. On the A28, a 20km queue was the result of all motorways and other roads jammed, from Nijkerk to interchange Rijnsweerd.

Meanwhile, an accident near Deventer-Oost caused a 33km long queue between interchange Azelo (near Almelo) and Deventer-Oost. A car crashed here and was then overrun by a truck.

On the A58, a truck had jackknifed, causing 15km of queue from both directions to the accident site. Between Moergestel and Hilvarenbeek, the right lane was closed.

Around 8.30 am, there were 80 traffic jams with a total length of 432km.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 01:51 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
Why should there be shoulders on usual 2-lane roads? That's quite unusual, also for most of the other european countries. For the same amount of space you'd better build a small 2+1 or 2X2 profile
Actually, I've had several occasions where I had to pull over on a 2-lane road, once just because I got lost and it was clear that continuing forward was pointless But seriously, what if your car breaks down suddenly, and there is no shoulder? You're gonna block the only lane of traffic. Even in Israel, where I used to live, there are often shoulders on 2-lane roads. But I guess it's not as crucial as on major expressways.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #425
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I think it's a waste of money. If there's no median, people can get over the other lane. But when there's really something wrong you'd better get your car off the road. Again, if you're adding driving lanes people can get overtake you safer, but it's a better use of space.

Some other trouble: people here drive more aggressive that in NA. So if there's room on the right they will use it for overtaking. Whether it's allowed or not. The same goes for bus lanes and stuff like that. So in a way it can make the road even unsafer...

I know in Germany on some rural 2-lane roads they put 'Mehrzweckstreifen' (I hope I spelled it well) on some Bundesstraßen. But those are quite small and not primarly meant as an emergency lane. They provide a space to use for slower traffic for letting overtake faster traffic.



On this road I even saw two overtaking cars in different direction, both overtaking a truck. It's that wide. But I thought german policy was to reconstruct these roads into a 2+1 profile.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 07:07 PM   #426
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Here is an example of what almost all major roads in rural Ontario look like:



This is a very high quality job due to the concrete gutters and paved shoulders in the foreground., and very recent (and also a provincial job, not municipal level.
as for a normal standard:



Just a simple strip of gravel used to pull over in case of breakdown or if there is something on the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669
Some other trouble: people here drive more aggressive that in NA. So if there's room on the right they will use it for overtaking. Whether it's allowed or not. The same goes for bus lanes and stuff like that. So in a way it can make the road even unsafer...
Its gravel, not a solid surface where its rather dangerous to drive on at a fast speed.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 07:57 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02
Its gravel, not a solid surface where its rather dangerous to drive on at a fast speed.
That's why I said "get off the road". In a lot of cases you can 'park' your car here also next to the road. Gravel is not that popular here, only on real small roads (with aren't wide enough for 2 vehicles passing each other). But some well maintained grass does the work too. (not before braking to a extreme low speed, of course, but that's just as your gravel example)
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Old October 9th, 2007, 08:12 PM   #428
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Half-off topic:
This is a main road(national 1st class) here:

Its enough wide when you stop,if you close the door,and you are not with a truck
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Old October 9th, 2007, 08:43 PM   #429
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Huge traffic jam on A2 after crashed truck.

An accident with a truck occurred on the A2 Eindhoven - Utrecht around 6 pm. The traffic jam growth was fenomenal, each minute, the queue growed with 1km. The A2 was already the scene of an incredible long traffic jam of 43km this morning. All motorways leading to Utrecht had a 30km long queue.
The jams lasted long, around 10 am, there was still a 30km queue related to the accident on the A2, 4 motorways away.

A map of the traffic jams. (Only the traffic jams related to the A2 incident are shown). Situation this morning around 8.30 am.
[IMG]http://i21.************/30t5u91.png[/IMG]
Over 150km of queue was directly related to this single incident.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:03 AM   #430
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Quote:
Extra lanes between Amsterdam and Almere

The traffic problems between Amsterdam and Almere, a suburb of 200.000 which almost totally rely on Amsterdam with only one bridge connecting the two cities, should be solved with extra lanes. Transport minister Camiel Eurlings hopes to reach an agreement with regional governments this wednesday.

The NOS Media company manage to got the conceptagreement tuesday.

It concerns the motorways A1, A6 and A10. There are a lot of traffic jams on these roads, and they will only become worse if nothing happened on the roads, because Almere has the ambition to grow to 400.000 inhabitants.
A tunnel connecting the A6 and A9 north of the Lake Naarden recieved a lot of resistance.

That's why the government wants to widen the existing motorways. The construction should begin in 2009, according to the NOS.
The A1 is now only 2x3 lanes + 1 rushhour lane which can be changed in the rushhour direction, and has an AADT of 200.000. It is usually impossible to travel here without traffic jams in and outside rushhours. Another problem is the movable bridge on this busy motorway. Sometimes it opens, immediatly causing kilometers of queue.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:07 AM   #431
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we had a shit at Zagreb bypass this morning, awfull accident (3 dead, 7 injured; 2 trucks and 4 cars) caused by speed and fog. and in other direction at same place - roadworks. so one direction had to go threw city.

btw, A35 looks great! i just cannot understand this changing the lanes (so cannot you neither ). maybe a lot of traffic exits at that exit and a lot od traffic is coming, but not many vehicles are keeping going straight - that is only logical explanation for me
and one more thing i dont like - not many far destinations at the tables. ok, it is probably normal because in the Netherlands you have a lot of parallel motorways and interchanges, but i miss them somehow
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:10 AM   #432
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This distance table is quite extreme. it's not usually to see such short distances only. Usually there is always a destination in the 50 - 100km range on important motorways which aren't a dead end on the coast or so.

That's because we use the RFP (Remote Focal Point) system, which always shows the last major city along the motorway, no matter how far. That's why Maastricht is signed over 200km, immediatly south of Amsterdam already.

By the way, people say 200km is one hell of a distance here. (i consider it a two hour drive if there are no traffic jams).
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:15 AM   #433
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cool system. we have signs that lead to first large city along the motorway, or maybe 2 of them (for instance, at Zagreb-Split you allways have Split written in that direction, but also you have other larger cities such as Zadar or Sibenik). when there is no more large cities along the motorway till border, we have border crossing name written, so sometimes you can find really silly villages as main destinations written
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:28 AM   #434
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that last thing is quite Polish. Once borders dissapear (like in the EU-Schengen zone) those tiny villages aren't important anymore. Nobody wants to travel to those tiny villages, especially not from 600km away (like in Poland). They better sign the border only a few exits before the actual border crossing.

In the Netherlands, we usually don't sign borders at all from far away (except on the A7, where the border village of Nieuweschans is signed from Groningen City, some 50km).
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:42 AM   #435
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that last thing is quite Polish. Once borders dissapear (like in the EU-Schengen zone) those tiny villages aren't important anymore. Nobody wants to travel to those tiny villages, especially not from 600km away (like in Poland). They better sign the border only a few exits before the actual border crossing.
What does it have to do with Poland?? Every country has it's bordertowns/villages. Compare Klazienaveen to Slubice and this comparison looks way better for Poland if you write about it. Independently of the Schengen zone this is still the border so there is a purpose to put in on the signs. Take Venlo for example... it's one of rather not especially important locations but well known by almost every driver that there is the border, so this is the reason to being present on the signs.

If You mean that in Poland often markings show distances / directions to tiny villages that are located by main roads, for me it is more convenient. It does tell me the location and distance to crossing of certain roads, which for me is way convenient than showing direction to a large city e.g. Wroclaw or Poznan.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 12:50 AM   #436
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I meant that last thing. Signing some Lithuanian border town 800kms away is nuts, no other countries does that, and that's for a reason.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 01:00 AM   #437
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I meant that last thing. Signing some Lithuanian border town 800kms away is nuts, no other countries does that, and that's for a reason.
Well, for me it is better option, which is more convenient for me. I prefer to know the exact places and work on the route taken on my own instead of just following the sign e.g. "Stuttgart". Sometimes, especially for professional drivers it has huge importance, as e.g. in Germany you can take two different routes to deliver the cargo. If it's Saturday during the summer holidays period, simple following the signs directing to the large city may be very expensive while of two motorways you can take (with similar distances driven) one is closed for the heavy transport on Saturday, and on the second one lorries may drive without restriction to make an extra turnover for the haulier on that day.

For a no-brainer navigation sign Wroclaw in Germany may be better, but for more advanced and detailed decision on which route to take, the version where one can choose to drive to Wroclaw through A18 Olszyna, or A4 Zgorzelec/Goerlitz is way better.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 02:40 AM   #438
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Quote:
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I meant that last thing. Signing some Lithuanian border town 800kms away is nuts, no other countries does that, and that's for a reason.
well, we dont have such extrems. we have those border villages up to 50 km max far from border.
exception is A3. why? because all way the A3 there were signs to Belgrade (while we were in Yugoslavia). then came war and all the connections with Serbia were erased, and at all signs Belgrade was replaced with Lipovac, which is a border village that nobody heard for before the war. as there were signs to Belgrade in Zagreb, too, those were also replaced with Lipovac, which is about 300 km far.
now you cannot see Lipovac signs along A3 anymore, you can see Slavonski Brod and 'upanja which are larger cities. befor border you probably can see Lipovac, or maybe Bajakovo (which is actually name of broder crossing, not Lipovac). but at access roads to motorways you can sometimes still find Lipovac because A3 is better known as Lipovac motorway.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 09:31 AM   #439
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We sign capitols or countries

And when we have border town names,then we also have the nearest bigger city on the other side of the border too.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #440
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I made two short video's today of two bridges across the IJssel river near the city of Kampen, a small city just north of my hometown Zwolle.

N764 Mill Bridge (Molenbrug)
The first video contains the Mill bridge, which used to carry the N50 across it. Now it is replaced with the higher bridge on the second video.

N50 Island Bridge (Eilandbrug)
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