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Old August 2nd, 2010, 07:06 PM   #4441
Attus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Attus, you have to remember that population density generates traffic
Yeah, I know that :-)
The Dutch have extreme traffic density, both trains and roads, related to Hungary. 2×2 is far enough for all roads in Hungary (except for suburban roads in and around Budapest), and I guess 30-40% of or motorway network is seriously underweighted. It is not the situation in the Netherlands :-)
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 01:27 AM   #4442
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
You are right that it's hard to find the space for them!
87% of the land is unbuild. Only 0,2% is highway pavement. Go to 0,3% and 90% of traffic problems is solved.

By the way, public rail transport takes up 99 km2 of land, and transports only 15 billion passengerkm/year, while the highway system takes up only 79 km2 and transports more than 60 billion passengerkm/year. Maintenance of the highway system costs significantly less taxmoney than rail maintenance and passenger services. So tell me what is the most efficient transportation modality...

There is enough space for highways, even in the Netherlands. The problem is in politics, because vast numbers of politicians have been brainwashed by the public transport lobby and environmental lobby in general, and the railwaylobby in particular - only to be helped by the media. It has been so for years, and if minister Eurlings wouldn't have made a change the last 3 years, it would probably still have been so now.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 01:38 AM   #4443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
87% of the land is unbuild. Only 0,2% is highway pavement. Go to 0,3% and 90% of traffic problems is solved.

By the way, public rail transport takes up 99 km2 of land, and transports only 15 billion passengerkm/year, while the highway system takes up only 79 km2 and transports more than 60 billion passengerkm/year. Maintenance of the highway system costs significantly less taxmoney than rail maintenance and passenger services. So tell me what is the most efficient transportation modality...

There is enough space for highways, even in the Netherlands. The problem is in politics, because vast numbers of politicians have been brainwashed by the public transport lobby and environmental lobby in general, and the railwaylobby in particular - only to be helped by the media. It has been so for years, and if minister Eurlings wouldn't have made a change the last 3 years, it would probably still have been so now.
Agree! Glad we're finally catching up tough! It's due to stupid politicians in the 80's and 90's that we had to catch up big time! But we're on the way to have one of the most solid highway infrastructure networks in the world with a grid of high capacity highways around our most important hubs and biggest cities.

I drove the new A2 section between Utrecht and Amsterdam today and it's a major relieve and the best looking highway I've driven on in ages
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:04 AM   #4444
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I agree that it is important to invest more in the highwaysystem in the Netherlands. But don't forget public transport. In my case, I can easily afford a car, but I don't have one. Walking, a bike and public transport suits well for me. If the railsystem would be half as good as it is now, I would buy a car. I know a lot of people who would be doing the same. Especially in the big cities this will have big consequences. Less people will use a bike, and far more a car. The space problem is something in the city. 20% more cars in Amsterdam, would mean at least 50.000 parking spaces within ringroad. But where?
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:29 AM   #4445
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Quote:
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87% of the land is unbuild. Only 0,2% is highway pavement. Go to 0,3% and 90% of traffic problems is solved.
Depends where you add the mileage - add it where fewer people live and it doesn't solve much at all. It's hard to find land where the roads are needed, to find straightish gaps wide enough to fit the road (unless you planned for it, and the gap is deliberately there), where there's isn't protection or aggressive NIMBYs.

Yes the problem is mostly political, but finding the land is difficult. Looking at the A5 extension, that seems to spend a sizeable chunk in a tunnel under an existing road, due to there not being a clear corridor from the A9 to the A10 that it can use. Oh yes, a tract of land could have been demolished, or a park built on or some gardens, but the problem is that there isn't the land to viably built the roads where you want the roads - that may be politically viability, or financial viability, but the case is there isn't the land.

Here in England, we have about 0.1% of the land covered in roads - but in the places where roads are most needed - like South London, there isn't the land full stop. Most motorway widening takes place within the motorway boundaries because they can't afford to buy a strip of land next to the motorway (not just the price, but the political costs too, but still, land isn't cheap, even when it's farmland or woods next to a motorway). Where my parents live there's an almighty fuss about a planned tunnelled high speed rail line, that passes under a couple of houses, a golf course, and a car park - it could travel on the surface, however given the fuss that is kicked up, eg: "it's going through the only protected area between London and Birmingham" (not that you can go a sensible way and go through it) -even getting such a tunnelled route through will be difficult. This is a railway - it would be 10 times the backlash for a motorway here, yet within a week of the publishing of the route there were near riots as hundreds of people couldn't get into to the first meeting of a sleepy village's 'Stop the Railway' group. I can imagine all sorts of shenanigans to stop construction if it actually happens. IIRC, the cost of policing the M3 completion in Hampshire (passing near a famous hill) ran into the millions - the land was empty, but people didn't want it there and tried to do all they could to stop it.

There may be lots of land you can theoretically build on, but is it viable to do so is another matter entirely!
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 11:19 AM   #4446
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Quote:
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87% of the land is unbuild.
Irrelevant and needlessly dramatic statistic. What's far more relevant is how much of the land is used, rather than built upon. Or would you suggest we can do without agriculture and uiterwaarden?
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 11:29 AM   #4447
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Some serious GTA-stuff on A67/E34 near the Belgian border. A couple of gangsters stopped a truck with their Audi, and wanted to hijack it and fired a couple of rounds at the truck driver. They crashed after the border on a road block the police set up. They fired with kalashnikovs on the police and they then tried to hijack a Polish truck, tied up the truck driver and set the truck on fire. The truck driver managed to get away though. The gangsters got away.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 11:43 AM   #4448
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WoW !!
Wild West here! I thought this kind of action already passed away... (kalasnikhov and gangsters with black car with dimmed windows). How Dutch Police could manage this brutal gun action? They are so calm and trustful
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 12:35 PM   #4449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
87% of the land is unbuild. Only 0,2% is highway pavement. Go to 0,3% and 90% of traffic problems is solved.
Haha, I wish it were so easy :-) Traffic is, unfortunately, not statistics. You need free space exactly where you want to build (or expanse) roads. You can get half of Asia as free area and cover it by concrete, it will not solve anything of your Dutch problems ;-)
And where you want to biuld/expanse roads, you usually have not enough free space, especially in and around towns. And if you expanse a current 2×2 motorway to 2×16, it will not solve anything if a bottleneck at a town can not be solved.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 01:25 PM   #4450
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Nearly all motorways have enough space around it to widen it. For example below is the A4 near Leiden, it runs on a narrow 4-lane alignment through an urbanized area. Yet they have managed to find a ROW wide enough to support 10 lanes.



There are really only a few spots where there is absolutely no space to widen a motorway without requiring significant demolition of buildings, for example A13-A20 around interchange Kleinpolderplein in Rotterdam. Or the A10-west in Amsterdam.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 01:41 PM   #4451
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What issue is for that project? Can everyone participate in this? http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/7...d__.html?p=2,3
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 01:46 PM   #4452
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What is this project about? I couldn't understand it what it is about.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 01:48 PM   #4453
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Mostly about traffic and traffic jams around Nijmegen and pre-warning system? how to avoid them...
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:48 PM   #4454
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Mostly about traffic and traffic jams around Nijmegen and pre-warning system? how to avoid them...
Thanks. I'm a beginner in Dutch. I understood there were going to give free cellphones for those who opted to avoid driving in that freeway during peak times while extensive road works are going on, plus a one-time € 150 bonus.

Slecht Nederland lezing.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:54 PM   #4455
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The idea is that regular travelers on those roads are offered to participate in a "peak hour avoidance project". You'll get a virtual credit of € 150, where a certain amount is deducted each time you drive during rush hour on certain roads. You can have anything that's left over after the trial period. You also get a smart phone that registers your trip, which the best peak hour avoiders are allowed to keep.

However, you can only participate if you are a registered user of those roads. You cannot participate from, say, Groningen or Maastricht. All license plates have been registered on those roads to find out who uses those roads regularly.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:58 PM   #4456
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Similar projects can be found at other major roadworks.

Another project is to offer daily users of certain motorways free public transport during road works. For example, on A2 motorway, approximately 1% of the drivers have ordered these free public transport passes. (about 1,200 people). However, it remains uncertain how many were actually used regularly.

This also shows something about the potential of public transport to reduce road traffic, even at completely free public transport, it apparantly appeals to only 1% of the motorway users and an even smaller amount is able to use it regularly.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 04:38 PM   #4457
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Slecht Nederland lezing.
'I'm bad at reading dutch'='Ik ben slecht in het lezen van (de) Nederlands(e taal)'

A 'lezing' is an address or a lecture
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 07:42 PM   #4458
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Hi all,

Been busy, haven't had a chance to post anything here in a couple months, it's good to be back.

Was having a conversation with something recently, and I told them that in 2007, I purchased a UK car and drove it to Norway and back(yes, I had insurance)on my US driver's license(California). He told me that what I did was illegal. I could have rented a car in London and drove it to France, but in no way was I allowed to purchase a British car and drive it to Europe.

I have no idea where else to post this question, so sorry if it's in the wrong area. Anyone know if I was truly in the wrong or does this guy not know what I he's talking about.

If I had been stopped by the police, say in France or The Netherlands, and presented my California license yet with proof that I owned the British car, what would they have possibly done? I am now living in the UK, and have a UK licence, so this wouldn't be an issue for me anymore, but I never gave it any thought until recently!

Thanks for info, I am curious as to whether I broke the law or not! :-) I'll post this question in the French or British motorways as well and see what people say.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 08:29 PM   #4459
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Hi all,

Been busy, haven't had a chance to post anything here in a couple months, it's good to be back.

Was having a conversation with something recently, and I told them that in 2007, I purchased a UK car and drove it to Norway and back(yes, I had insurance)on my US driver's license(California). He told me that what I did was illegal. I could have rented a car in London and drove it to France, but in no way was I allowed to purchase a British car and drive it to Europe.

I have no idea where else to post this question, so sorry if it's in the wrong area. Anyone know if I was truly in the wrong or does this guy not know what I he's talking about.

If I had been stopped by the police, say in France or The Netherlands, and presented my California license yet with proof that I owned the British car, what would they have possibly done? I am now living in the UK, and have a UK licence, so this wouldn't be an issue for me anymore, but I never gave it any thought until recently!

Thanks for info, I am curious as to whether I broke the law or not! :-) I'll post this question in the French or British motorways as well and see what people say.
Driving license requirements and car ownership requirements are two different issues. You can use a foreign (non-EU) driver's license in any European country for at least 6 months upon taking residency.

Each country then has its own requirements regarding car acquisition and registration. In some EU countries it might be hard to registry your car without a EU driver's license.

In any case, if your car was legally acquired, and you have insurance covering your trip, you can travel anywhere you want.

Some countries (notably France) even have short-term leasing agreements (buy-and-sell-back) for tourists, who obviously don't have EU driver's licenses.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 09:48 PM   #4460
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I'm gonna make an extensive overview of road projects in the Netherlands in the next few posts. They will be added to the first post later on.
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