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Old September 16th, 2010, 03:02 PM   #4581
Slagathor
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Is there a fine for anti-social driving? I mean the morons who don't seem to know their cars have indicator lights and that braking in the very last second for a pedestrian crossing doesn't make the pedestrians feel particularly safe or eager to cross.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 03:19 PM   #4582
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Yes, article 5 of the highway code (Wegenverkeerswet)
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Old September 16th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #4583
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That one should be enforced waaaaay more. I also think refresher courses should be mandatory. Right now you can get your license at age 18 and then nobody will ever ask you a question about road safety or rules ever again. That's no good.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #4584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, article 5 of the highway code (Wegenverkeerswet)
Article 5 Wvw only applies if the behaviour is (or could be) objectively dangerous. I doubt Slagathor's example of late braking for pedestrian crossings would be qualified that way.

Not using indicator lights is neither likely to be considered dangerous in the way stated in article 5 of the Road Traffic Act (Wvw), as long as you don't (nearly) hit someone. But it is a violation of article 55 of Traffic Rules and Traffic Signs Code (RVV), which requires to use indicator lights in specified situations, and can therefore result in a fine.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 10:58 AM   #4585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
That one should be enforced waaaaay more. I also think refresher courses should be mandatory. Right now you can get your license at age 18 and then nobody will ever ask you a question about road safety or rules ever again. That's no good.
No, changing rules to the stupid (like having to give way to slow traffic from the right (FVRV)) is no good to me. There's no need to constantly rip someone's pocket just for re-examening, surely because a lot of people in traffic don't need a license at all (peds, cyclists) and have become very assertive last years thanks to stupid laws...
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Old September 20th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #4586
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There was rumors in the UK of adopting a 'blame by default' to all vehicle drivers who are involved in accidents with cyclists. apparently that is the law in the Netherlands and Germany? So if I'm driving carefully within the speed limit and a cyclist suddenly does something stupid like come out from a side street without looking and collides with me, then I would be at least 50% to blame. Is this really true? I'm very much in favour of promoting cycling and high quality cycle infrastructure but such rules seem very unfair! I hope I heard wrong!
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Old September 20th, 2010, 09:48 PM   #4587
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In The Netherlands there is a difference between 'blame' (schuld) and 'legal liability' (aansprakelijkheid). You are not to blame by default, but you are 'liable by default'.

This is to protect vulnerable road users (pedestrians and cyclists). It does not mean that the motor vehicle is always liable, but he/she is liable by default. Even when he/she is not to blame.

An operator of a motorized vehicle can go to court to fight this though.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 01:00 AM   #4588
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What do you mean? A collision with pedestrian occurs, in which a driver broke no rules and pedestrian did, and the driver may have his licence revoked/go to prison and then appeal?
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Old September 21st, 2010, 01:12 AM   #4589
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Liability in Roman Law systems usually means civil responsibility and will end up being, as a practical matter, an obligation of the driver's insurer to pay the damages.

If the driver did nothing wrong, I don't think it will have its license confiscated, let alone criminally prosecuted. I guess it works like this.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 10:59 PM   #4590
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Rijksweg 15: IC Ressen - Bemmel

A peculiar section of the national highway network (rijkswegen) is the eastern terminus of A15. The A15 motorway ends at interchange Ressen with A325/N325. However, the 2 or so kilometers eastwards to Bemmel fall under the national road authority jurisdiction, but has no road number signed. But A15 is noted on the distance markers.

This section opened in 1979, together with A15 between Valburg and Ressen. It was intended for A15 to continue east towards Enschede. A section of this route has now been signed as A18, but is officially still designated as a part of rijksweg 15.

Map:


1. The motorway ends, and narrows to one lane at interchange Ressen.
image hosted on flickr

RW15-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. Officially speaking, the motorway is single lane for another kilometer or so.
image hosted on flickr

RW15-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. Begin "autoweg" status (Motorroad, express road or expressway)
image hosted on flickr

RW15-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. Still designated A15, but no number is signed on the signs.
image hosted on flickr

RW15-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. An overpass, wide enough to accomodate a future motorway. Don't let those embankments fool you.
image hosted on flickr

RW15-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. End of the road.
image hosted on flickr

RW15-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old September 21st, 2010, 11:44 PM   #4591
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N323 Prince Willem-Alexander Bridge

Another odd feature in the Netherlands is the N323 east of Tiel. It is a short, 2x2 expressway, that runs from the neck of the woods to the middle of nowhere. Once intended as a secondary route from central Netherlands to Nijmegen, the road opened in 1974 as a toll road. It mainly consists out of the Prince Willem-Alexander Bridge and its approaches. It has an expressway status with a 100 km/h limit. It was tolled until 1996, when tolls were abolished.

This route was never included in motorway programs in the 1930's, 1950's, 1960's or 1970's, but was included in a scheme of main roads in 1966, which did not necessarily reflect all of these routes to be motorways. No A-number was planned for this route, to my knowledge. Approximately 20.000 vehicles use this bridge on a daily basis.

Well, let the pictures speak for themselves:

1. Leaving a construction zone, 100 km/h limit from here.
image hosted on flickr

N323-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. The bridge is under renovation, 36 years after its original opening.
image hosted on flickr

N323-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. We are crossing the Waal River, which is the largest river in the Netherlands by volume. Most of the Rhine River flows into the Waal.
image hosted on flickr

N323-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. The black/white signs indicate where shoulders end.
image hosted on flickr

N323-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. A typical 1970's bridge, no shoulders, but with facilities for slow traffic. Most river bridges in the Netherlands feature both motorway and slow traffic facilities. The number of bridges is limited, so motorway and slow traffic is often combined on one bridge.
image hosted on flickr

N323-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. It is kind of nostalgic to drive here.
image hosted on flickr

N323-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. I'm not sure where the toll collection point was, but it could've been here, considering the newer pavement.
image hosted on flickr

N323-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. This new pavement even includes shoulders. Usually when such a road gets repaved, it gets stripped of the shoulder, to make it feel less of a motorway.
image hosted on flickr

N323-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. Junction with the A15 motorway. End of N323 after 4,6 km.
image hosted on flickr

N323-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 12:09 AM   #4592
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N322 Maas en Waalweg

Another interesting feature in that area is the N322 expressway. Built around 1976, it seems to coincide with the construction of A73 from interchange Ewijk to Venlo at that time. The newer alignment is approximately 9 km long, has the "autoweg" (expressway) status, and has an 100 km/h speed limit. It can be seen as a direct continuation of A73.

Some people have come up with the idea to extend A73 via this route, N323 (see previous post) and other roads to A30, thus creating a new Randstad - Germany direct link. These plans however, are nothing more than wild ideas, there are absolutely no government plans for such a motorway. Another problem is that de N323 bridge is too far west to make sense as a north-south connection from A30 to A73. It should also be noted that A30 wasn't opened until 2004.

Note that the entire N322 has been built with space for a second carriageway. It carries 18.000 - 22.000 vehicles per day.

route on Google Maps

Pictures:

1. A73 terminates, and becomes the single lane N322 expressway.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. There is no median on this road.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. Passing is also banned at all times for the entire route.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. Exit Deest. This is old-school signage. Must of the signage of this style on non-motorway has been replaced by redesign signage.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. Exit Deest.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. Notice the extra space for another two lanes.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. Texaco gas station.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. Exit Druten. Off-peak traffic is not very significant on this route, as it doesn't serve any through traffic.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. This is redesign signage.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

13. End of the expressway. An extension (realignment actually) is currently under construction, but will feature two roundabouts and a traffic light.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-13 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

14. Speed limit drops from 100 to 30 km/h, including speed bumps.
image hosted on flickr

N322 mww-14 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 06:10 PM   #4593
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The double white line really looks more distinct with a shaded green inside. Although there's no overtaking opportunities. Still good space in between the lanes.
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 02:20 AM   #4594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kubam4a1 View Post
What do you mean? A collision with pedestrian occurs, in which a driver broke no rules and pedestrian did, and the driver may have his licence revoked/go to prison and then appeal?
In case of a collision between a car and a pedestrian or a cyclist, the driver of the car will be held liable unless he can prove that he is not to blame.

Normally, it would be the other way around. A pedestrian or cyclist who accuses the car driver of dangerous driving would have to deliver evidence. But that appeared to be very hard to prove; how can you deliver evidence that someone was driving reckless? Therefore they changed the law; a car driver should watch weaker traffic and do whatever is needed to prevent accidents.

If there is an accident and it is clear that the car driver did whatever he could and/or it is clear that the collision was caused by the behaviour of the pedestrian/cyclist, then it's the pedestrian/cyclist who will be held liable, of course.
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 03:36 AM   #4595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Rijksweg 15: IC Ressen - Bemmel

A peculiar section of the national highway network (rijkswegen) is the eastern terminus of A15. The A15 motorway ends at interchange Ressen with A325/N325. However, the 2 or so kilometers eastwards to Bemmel fall under the national road authority jurisdiction, but has no road number signed. But A15 is noted on the distance markers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
4. Still designated A15, but no number is signed on the signs.
image hosted on flickr

RW15-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
That seems to be a mistake. An autoweg (expressway) can never have an A-number. This road should be signed as "N15", which is the official road number between IC Ressen and Bemmel. Those distance markers need to be changed or replaced a.s.a.p. as they could confuse drivers about the status of the road.
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 03:15 PM   #4596
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http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ie=...,339.63,,0,4.9

They also did it wrong here. Officialy the A20 ends here, and the N213 begins. The autoweg signs are also clearly visibile. But they still put A20 distance markers all the way to the next intersection.
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Old September 25th, 2010, 11:43 PM   #4597
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N201 Aalsmeer - Hoorn

An impressive provincial project is the realignment of the N201 highway. The N201 is one of the busiest non-motorways in the Netherlands with a peak traffic volume of 60.000 vehicles per day.

The new alignment will be grade-separated and feature 2x2 lanes.





aerial:


The existing N201 interchange will be replaced by two new ones, with a grand total of 16 lanes between them. Quintessential Dutch, they will say in 20 years

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; September 26th, 2010 at 12:02 AM.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 06:59 PM   #4598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The existing N201 interchange will be replaced by two new ones, with a grand total of 16 lanes between them. Quintessential Dutch, they will say in 20 years
Looks like the two new ones are only on the outer carriageways (is the plan to have the whole A5 to A44 section of A4 widened to four carriageways? It would certainly make quite a bit of sense), <silly semantics> Unless those outer carriageways have 8 lanes each, it's not 16 lanes between them, but a 16 lane cross-section on the A4 between them. </silly semantics>.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 07:04 PM   #4599
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It has been suggested to extend the parallel structure to the Burgerveen interchange (A4/A44). There will be 5 interchanges within 9 km, and at a projected traffic volume of 260.000 vehicles per day, it could become problematic.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #4600
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De Hoek intechange to the bridgerestaurant will be 2-5-5-2 with additional lanes for weaving traffic: that makes 16 altogether. The section between the bridgerestaurant and Burgerveen interchange will remain 2x5 for the moment.
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