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Old January 28th, 2011, 09:06 AM   #5001
Natomasken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisent View Post
It's difficult to turn that concept into a pictogram. I very vaguely remember that in one European country (Sweden???), something like a cartoon text bubble is used to signify "This destination also contains, or refers to:". That's the closest solution I've seen.
Here's an example from the E6 around Gothenburg, if I remember right.
image hosted on flickr


There was another section of the E6 where they used Danish-style signs and the text "folj."
image hosted on flickr


It took me longer to figure out what the "bubble" meant than "folj," but once figured out, the bubble is very recognizable and avoids having to use text, always a good thing. (Never really connected "folj" and "follow" though.)

Last edited by Natomasken; January 28th, 2011 at 09:43 AM. Reason: linked to better photos
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Old January 28th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #5002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
I checked in translator and am pretty certain that most of visitors from Germanic countries would get it.

Danish - følge
Norwegian - følg
German - folge
Swedish - följa
Icelandic - fylgja
and English, which in my opinion does not differ from the rest too much - follow

I used google translator which sometimes does its job in, let's say, interesting way:

Serbian - Фоллов.

Just could not believe since discovered this.
I don't know that the relationship between -g and -ow is obvious to a non-linguist, in a moving car in an unfamiliar area where the signs are full of unfamiliar things. Heck, for all he knows, "volg" could be another place name. But my intent was not to make an issue of this....
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Old January 28th, 2011, 11:19 AM   #5003
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To help it out, volg = follow but vogel = birds. So if you are not familiar, you might see these "vogels" signs and don't get any sense of them
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Old January 28th, 2011, 01:01 PM   #5004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I don't know that the relationship between -g and -ow is obvious to a non-linguist, in a moving car in an unfamiliar area where the signs are full of unfamiliar things. Heck, for all he knows, "volg" could be another place name. But my intent was not to make an issue of this....
And for large Slavic part of Europe how you do that?
Polish - podążaj
Slovak - nasledovať
Czech - následovat
...
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Old January 28th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #5005
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not to mention the romance part. I think that when possible only graphic signs should be used. I guess in this case just a downward arrow would do the job.

BTW I don't see the need for "follow". There aren't any such signs in Italy, for instance, but we reach our destinations anyway
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Old January 28th, 2011, 10:54 PM   #5006
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BTW I don't see the need for "follow". There aren't any such signs in Italy, for instance, but we reach our destinations anyway
The idea is that these "follow signs" reduce the number of destinations signed further along the route. Italy is known for its intersections with small signs that indicate 20 destinations that you can only read if you park there, so I'm not sure if that's the way to go. However, half of the destinations here shouldn't be signed anyway, you can assume ambulance drivers know which entry-point at the hospital they need. What's more astounding is that actual places of importance, like the motorways around Rotterdam are not signed at all. You have no idea which direction to follow if you want to get out of the city.

Anyway, here is an article from a local newspaper in Barendrecht Metropolis about the new tunnel segments of the second Coentunnel. They are constructed at the Barendrecht construction dock and will be shipped to Amsterdam in April (via the North Sea! only the second time they do this) and will be sunk to form the tunnel. Each segment is 178 meters long.


Continue down the Amsterdam area, where the new A5 elevated motorway is under construction:
[img]http://media.*************/normal/11/01/27/110127-15-westrandweg.jpg[/img]
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Old January 28th, 2011, 11:26 PM   #5007
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The idea is that these "follow signs" reduce the number of destinations signed further along the route. Italy is known for its intersections with small signs that indicate 20 destinations that you can only read if you park there, so I'm not sure if that's the way to go.
It's not really like this. In most cases at intersections (I'm talking about normal roads, not highways) there are no more than 3-4 destinations. On motorways this is the worst you can get:


you can't say this is hard to read
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Old January 28th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #5008
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The Netherlands want to introduce too, they're called "service signs", where all local destinations are signed beforehand, with the actual signage only containing important destinations. That way you can get rit of all the white (= local) destinations on major roads and motorways. Because it really got out of hand here with an overkill of local destinations.
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Old January 29th, 2011, 02:54 PM   #5009
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They sometimes use "route" in stead of "volg". Here's an example near Ede. "Route" is understood more universally I think.
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Old January 29th, 2011, 04:05 PM   #5010
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and sometimes they don't
and use both
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&sourc...,0.003484&z=19
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Old January 29th, 2011, 05:40 PM   #5011
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Originally Posted by peezet View Post
and sometimes they don't
and use both ...
... or even 'via route Axx' or just 'via Axx'.

I have to say, using the construct 'via Axx' probably has the best chance of getting the message across.
The Scandinavian example, shown above is OK, once you've been told what the pictogram means, but I found it counter-intuitive at first sight.

Even though I only have about one brain cell capable of rational thought, I've never had any problems with understanding the Dutch 'volg xxx' signs. They somehow clicked with me straightaway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
... Each segment is 178 meters long.
Do you mean 17.8 m or 178 m? I know the article says 178 m but come on ...
Unless the tunnel is made in sections, how can anyone lift anything that long without breaking it?

Impressive, though, if it is true.


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Old January 29th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #5012
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It is 178 m. They have a very ingenious way to transport these, they can submerge the whole construction dock, let the segments float, put a barge underneath it, and transport it to Amsterdam, where the segments will be sunk, which is the traditional way of constructing tunnels in the Netherlands. Because of our soft soil, bored tunnels need to be very deep. There are only two bored tunnels for road traffic (Hubertus Tunnel Den Haag (2008) and Westerschelde Tunnel (2003). There are a few bored train tunnels though (mainly High Speed Rail and Betuwe Freight Route).

This is the second time these tunnel segments are transported via open sea, the first time was in 1996 when the Wijker Tunnel near Haarlem (A9) was constructed.
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Old January 29th, 2011, 07:54 PM   #5013
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1. 2e Heinenoordtunnel (1999) is also a bored tunnel for road traffic. The first bored tunnel in the Netherlands.

2. It is will be the 3rd time that submerged tunnels will be used that are transported on open sea. The Piet Heintunnel (8x 158m segments) is also transported via open sea. As far as I know the longest route on open sea, because they had to be transported from Antwerp to Amsterdam.
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Old January 29th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #5014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
1. 2e Heinenoordtunnel (1999) is also a bored tunnel for road traffic. The first bored tunnel in the Netherlands.
Correct. However, this tunnel is not open to general traffic, only agricultural traffic and mopeds, bicycles, etc, so I left that one out. It is not, as is often thought, a carriageway from the A29 motorway.

When the Heinenoord Tunnel was completed in 1968, it had 2x2 lanes, but with large shoulders for slow traffic. The first shoulder was sacrificed for a 3rd lane in 1991 in the eastern tube. The second one was reconfigured into a 3rd lane in 1999 after the 2nd Heinenoord Tunnel opened to traffic.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 10:41 AM   #5015
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A5 Westrandweg Amsterdam, elevated motorway:





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Old January 31st, 2011, 11:02 AM   #5016
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Is it 2+2? I wonder when they will have to enlarge it...
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Old January 31st, 2011, 11:06 AM   #5017
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Yes, it will feature 2x2 lanes and a forecasted traffic volume of 96.000 vehicles per day, so it will be congested. However, politically it was the maximum they could get out of them, so something is better than nothing. It will still reduce traffic on the A10-west (which carries 110.000 - 180.000 vehicles per day).

The new A5 will be interesting for two major traffic flows;

* through traffic from A7 to A4
* regional traffic from Purmerend to Haarlem (A8 has a missing link).
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Old January 31st, 2011, 05:50 PM   #5018
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A50 Nijmegen

Transportation minister Schultz officially started the roadworks for the largest civil engineering project in eastern Netherlands; the construction of the second Waal Bridge in the A50 motorway. The new bridge is the largest constructed in the past 15 years, and will feature 4 lanes and a shoulder, which will be operated in the southbound direction. The existing 2x2 bridge will be retrofitted for operating in the northbound direction, ultimately leading to a 4+2+2 setup. The number of pylons will triple from 2 to 6. Rumor has it that the new bridge will be wide enough to carry all 6 lanes during renovation of the old bridge. The new bridge will be completed in 2013, after which the old bridge will be renovated. Full 8 lane capacity will be in operation in late 2013 or early 2014.

1. Current bridge:


2. Future bridge:
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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:36 PM   #5019
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A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal

The A50 construction start was not Schultz's only job today. She also officially commenced the widening of A12 between interchange Lunetten (A27) to Veenendaal, a distance of 29 kilometers. A12 will be widened using a variety of solutions. The first section from Lunetten to Bunnik will be widened to 2x4 regular lanes. Then 2x3 lanes + plus lanes to Driebergen, 2x2 + plus lanes to Maarsbergen and 2x2 + shoulder running to Veenendaal.

The works should be completed in early 2013, almost 2 years ahead of schedule (late 2014).





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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:59 PM   #5020
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Sweet news.
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