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Old April 18th, 2011, 11:58 PM   #5281
ArthurK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
A statistic that perfectly shows we can easily increase the speed limit on them.

Stupid 80/100/120 kph limits, there is nothing bad about 180+ in the middle of the night or on very quiet bits of motorway like the A7...

The 100 kph limit on the A2 is disgusting and unbelievable.
Agree with that, but I don't think 180+ on Dutch highways is a good idea without additional measures. For example wider lanes and bushes in the median, so you can drive with full headlights on without disturbing oncoming traffic. Yesterday, I drove at 170 kph on the German A31 (the "Emslandlinie", just over the Dutch border), but German Autobahns have much less exits than Dutch highways and far less traffic, which makes driving less complex. You have so much more time and space to anticipate on other motorists.

But I think 130 or 140 kph would be possible on quiet stretches of the Dutch highway network, like the A7 you mentioned. Yesterday, when I reached the border and had to slow down from 170 to 120, it felt like I was hardly moving anymore.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:44 AM   #5282
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[QUOTE=ChrisZwolle;76258431]Mashed potatoes on A2 in Eindhoven.




What a unlucky day!
First staying 20 min cause of car defected on left lane on A28 near Assen, then again A28 near Zwolle cause of small accident with taxi bus. Already 70 min late Later on when I saw "N2 dicht" just entering Eindhoven I thought it' s a joke! 55 min of driving from A50 Ekkersrijt to Veldhoven cause of mashed potatoes and getting to work extremely late! No information about closed N2 on TMC system! How come?!
Can I claim any compensation from Rijkstraat... or RDW :]
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Old April 19th, 2011, 12:58 AM   #5283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurK View Post
Agree with that, but I don't think 180+ on Dutch highways is a good idea without additional measures. For example wider lanes and bushes in the median, so you can drive with full headlights on without disturbing oncoming traffic. Yesterday, I drove at 170 kph on the German A31 (the "Emslandlinie", just over the Dutch border), but German Autobahns have much less exits than Dutch highways and far less traffic, which makes driving less complex. You have so much more time and space to anticipate on other motorists.

But I think 130 or 140 kph would be possible on quiet stretches of the Dutch highway network, like the A7 you mentioned. Yesterday, when I reached the border and had to slow down from 170 to 120, it felt like I was hardly moving anymore.
Sure but in the middle of the night that applies to just about any motorway, I mainly drive at night where you sometimes see 1 other car per 2 or 3 minutes, It's not allowed but I regularly do 200kph in the middle of the night when nobody's around, most of the motorways around here are lighted ( Randstad) so don't have a problem with visibility either.

The A15 from Ridderkerk to Hoogvliet, or the A16 between R'dam and Breda, those stretches are perfect at night for setting your cruise control on 170 kph or so imho. Very wide, (2x3 minimum at all times), lighted up like a christmas tree, quiet, etc...


I find it really disturbing that 200 kph during rush hour costs just as much as a fine at 3 am in the night, at night ( 11.30 pm to 5 am or so) the speed limits should be a good 40-50 kph higher. And fines should be lower.


I wouldn't mind the ''superhighways'' they suggested a while ago, intercity toll highways with no exits, for example from Rotterdam to A'dam, such roads would be perfect for 250 kph . And a minimum speed of 150 kph or so . That way people would actually be able to get somewhere at a decent speed.

Last edited by snowdog; April 19th, 2011 at 01:08 AM.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 01:42 AM   #5284
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[QUOTE=mappero;76295675]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Mashed potatoes on A2 in Eindhoven.




What a unlucky day!
First staying 20 min cause of car defected on left lane on A28 near Assen, then again A28 near Zwolle cause of small accident with taxi bus. Already 70 min late Later on when I saw "N2 dicht" just entering Eindhoven I thought it' s a joke! 55 min of driving from A50 Ekkersrijt to Veldhoven cause of mashed potatoes and getting to work extremely late! No information about closed N2 on TMC system! How come?!
Can I claim any compensation from Rijkstraat... or RDW :]
"N2 dicht" ? Text only?
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Old April 19th, 2011, 01:59 AM   #5285
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It was display "N2 dicht, volg A2 en affrit Geldorp" but when you have 20 sec to take decision and find out where is Geldorp it'a already too late...
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Old April 19th, 2011, 04:07 AM   #5286
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Originally Posted by mappero View Post
It was display "N2 dicht, volg A2 en affrit Geldorp" but when you have 20 sec to take decision and find out where is Geldorp it'a already too late...
[:post to be read in facetious tone of voice:]
Since one of the favorite European complaints about American signage is that you need to be able to read English to understand the signs, I'm...surprised...that a country whose language is unknown more than 200 miles away (except to weirdos like me) would indulge in so much of it.
[:end facetious tone:]
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Old April 19th, 2011, 11:01 AM   #5287
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So please, show me a good pictorial sign that can be understood by 90% of the motorists in 10 seconds that shows N2-bound traffic ONLY: do not take N2, use the A2, then turn around at exit Geldrop.

Because with accidents like these you have unusual situations that do not occur 99,99% of the time, yet you start to complain about that 00,01% of the time situation.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 11:29 AM   #5288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
[:post to be read in facetious tone of voice:]
Since one of the favorite European complaints about American signage is that you need to be able to read English to understand the signs, I'm...surprised...that a country whose language is unknown more than 200 miles away (except to weirdos like me) would indulge in so much of it.
[:end facetious tone:]
It has to be doable though. It's all very well coming up with a sign that means "Roadworks ahead" without using any words. But telling people they are going to have to take a specific detour due to an accident is a different matter.

I don't think "indulge" is the right word here.

Having said that, I'm not one of those people who think the US should adopt EU road signs. It doesn't make sense.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 01:16 PM   #5289
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A50 Arnhem

The motorway widening of A50 west of Arnhem is physically completed. There are now three lanes available in both directions between interchange Valburg (A15) and interchange Grijsoord (A12). This will solve the severe northbound congestion. Southbound congestion will remain until the second Waal Bridge will be completed in 2013. The 90 km/h limit will remain for some days until all MTM* is tested.

map:


* Motorway Traffic Management
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Old April 19th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #5290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So please, show me a good pictorial sign that can be understood by 90% of the motorists in 10 seconds that shows N2-bound traffic ONLY: do not take N2, use the A2, then turn around at exit Geldrop.

Because with accidents like these you have unusual situations that do not occur 99,99% of the time, yet you start to complain about that 00,01% of the time situation.

It could be done. When you would have quite big display which would be abble to present a map of given section and its detour.
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Old April 19th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #5291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So please, show me a good pictorial sign that can be understood by 90% of the motorists in 10 seconds that shows N2-bound traffic ONLY: do not take N2, use the A2, then turn around at exit Geldrop.

Because with accidents like these you have unusual situations that do not occur 99,99% of the time, yet you start to complain about that 00,01% of the time situation.
How about an N2 route marker sitting inside a red circle with a bar through it? It doesn't convey the whole situation, but it would be a start.

But I'm not "complaining": just taking the opportunity to point out that no one in the world does everything through symbols, because not everything can be done through symbols. (And, as I said on another thread, some symbols aren't as intuitive as some people think they are, and therefore still need to be learned, just like the meanings of expressions like "one way" do.)
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Old April 19th, 2011, 06:31 PM   #5292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
[:post to be read in facetious tone of voice:]
Since one of the favorite European complaints about American signage is that you need to be able to read English to understand the signs, I'm...surprised...that a country whose language is unknown more than 200 miles away (except to weirdos like me) would indulge in so much of it.
[:end facetious tone:]
I must say, that sounds retarded, everyone knows english ( well except for the French who seem to be unwilling to learn it (joke, before anyone starts hatin)), I kind of laugh at people who complain about that .
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Old April 19th, 2011, 06:32 PM   #5293
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It could be done. When you would have quite big display which would be abble to present a map of given section and its detour.
They already exist. They're called bermDRIPs.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 01:26 PM   #5294
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Ok guys!
I think the biggest problem with N2 and A2 in Eindhoven area that N2 is fully isolated from A2 on west and south part of the city. In case on any accident (like we have this Monday) on N2 the city is full cut off from the ring road at all. No entrance/exit on knpt Airport, Veldohven, Veldoven Zuid, HighTec Campus, ... So driving to Eindhoven or Veldhoven and from those places is very blocked.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 01:42 PM   #5295
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In this case, it was actually beneficial that the N2 was isolated from the A2, because if it wasn't, the a2 would be blocked due to mashed potatoes as well and no detour would be possible.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #5296
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Quote:
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They already exist. They're called bermDRIPs.
Indeed. It shouldn't be that difficult to show the layout of the A2/N2 with a accident-icon and in red which part of the road is closed.

An example of a bermDRIP, showing information on congestion at the Amsterdam ring road:

(Source: Wikipedia)
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Old April 20th, 2011, 01:51 PM   #5297
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That's a "GRIP" (Grafisch Route-informatie paneel, Graphic Route-information panel).
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Old April 20th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #5298
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Never heard of "GRIP" in that meaning before. It's a very badly chosen abbreviation, since GRIP is also the abbreviation of Gecoördineerde Regionale Incidentbestrijdings Procedure (Coordinated Regional Incident-Management Procedure), which is used to classify serious incidents.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 02:06 PM   #5299
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The term is hardly ever used in media communication. The difference between a DRIP and a GRIP is that a DRIP is mostly text-based while a GRIP offers a schematic overview of the situation.

A58 Vlake Tunnel, Zeeland

By the way, interesting stuff about the Vlake Tunnel. As you may know tunnel segments suddenly came up due to excess ground water, after which various anchors under the roadway failed, causing several tunnel segments to raise by 10 - 15 centimeters.

The real cause seems to have been determined, and the ground water level was exacerbated by tides. When this tunnel was constructed in the 1970's, it was still planned to close the Oosterschelde estuary completely from open sea. After long environmental protests, they constructed a levee that would be closed during times of extremely high tides, but otherwise tides flow in and out of the Oosterschelde. During tunnel construction, it was built for normal ground water levels, not for additional effects of tides.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #5300
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Yep, it's a BermDRIP.

GRIP is used a lot by emergency services. It indicates an emergency-level.


Vlaketunnel: the steel groundanchors were in bad condition as well - a lot were broken. The combination of both (tide and groundanchors) was the reason why the problem occured.
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