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Old May 3rd, 2011, 12:24 AM   #5401
snowdog
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How long are each respectively ?

I love seeing elevated highways, but, they're a **** to upgrade later on.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 11:20 AM   #5402
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The elevated part of A20 through Rotterdam is not too much longer than 1 kilometer. It starts as a bridge over the Rotte river, then stays elevated to cross over a nearby rail track. As soon as that is crossed, the elevation stops and the A20 continues at ground level. So that's more a sense approach to combine two necessary overpasses than a true elevated highway.

The A5 under construction, on the other hand, moves well beyond that combined overpass idea. Not sure about its exact length.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 04:44 PM   #5403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
However the last A15-alternative west of Zevenaar could only be effective when the A12 between Westervoort and the new interchange would be widened to 2x4, and further on to Oud-Dijk interchange to at least 2x3, with space for a further widening to 2x4. Apart from that, I would like the Oud-Dijk interchange to be completed.
If the original plans are constructed afterall, and A15 does meet A12/A18 at the Oud-Dijk interchange, will the numbers remain the same, or will A18 be renumbered as A15 (or vice-versa)?


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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nope. Not a single Dutch motorway is tolled. We pay tolls through our gas tax, motor vehicle tax and road tax.
I remember one of my uncles telling me something about that. I think he mentioned that the amount you pay for the Road Tax (or Motor Vehicle Tax--I forget which one) was determined by the total weight of your vehicle (higher weight = higher taxes), and that partly explains why so many cars in Holland are compact or mini cars. Can anyone verify this?
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 04:52 PM   #5404
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Originally Posted by AlbertC79 View Post
I remember one of my uncles telling me something about that. I think he mentioned that the amount you pay for the Road Tax (or Motor Vehicle Tax--I forget which one) was determined by the total weight of your vehicle (higher weight = higher taxes), and that partly explains why so many cars in Holland are compact or mini cars. Can anyone verify this?
Correctomundo.

Calculate your Road Tax here (official website of the Dutch IRS):
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/reken/...igenbelasting/

For instance, a passenger car owned by someone who lives in the province of South-Holland that runs on gas and weighs between 1051 and 1150 kilos costs:

€127 per quarter and €496 per year in Road Tax.


Last edited by Slagathor; May 3rd, 2011 at 04:57 PM.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:04 PM   #5405
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If you compare it to diesel, you'll see why the Dutch share of diesel vehicles is 4 times less than in Belgium or France.



Not to mention there are not many diesel vehicles weighing 1050 - 1150 kg.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:19 PM   #5406
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Why does the motor vehicle tax vary depending on where you live?
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:20 PM   #5407
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Why does the motor vehicle tax vary depending on where you live?
Because Road Tax isn't a 100% national tax, the provincial governments also take a share and they have the authority to set their own percentages.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:23 PM   #5408
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i thought that maybe if it were national, someone would've sued the state for that injustice, but if it's influenced by the province governments, then that expains it, thanks.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 06:44 PM   #5409
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130 km/h trials

Rijkswaterstaat announced the three next 130 km/h trials today;

* A2 Everdingen - Deil: 130 km/h outside rush hours
* A6 Almere-Buiten-Oost - Joure: 130 km/h 19.00 - 06.00 hrs
* A16 Moerdijk - Breda: 130 km/h outside rush hours

A6 mid-May
A2/A16 late May

further trials:

A17/A58, A32, A37 and A58: July 2011
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 11:26 PM   #5410
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What happened to the 100 km/h on the A20 outside busy hours ( where it's now a terribly slow 80 kph?).
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Old May 4th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #5411
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130 km/h trials

Rijkswaterstaat announced the three next 130 km/h trials today;

* A16 Moerdijk - Breda: 130 km/h outside rush hours
That's a big step forward, isn't that bit 100 km/h now?
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Old May 4th, 2011, 05:33 AM   #5412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Correctomundo.

Calculate your Road Tax here (official website of the Dutch IRS):
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/reken/...igenbelasting/

For instance, a passenger car owned by someone who lives in the province of South-Holland that runs on gas and weighs between 1051 and 1150 kilos costs:

€127 per quarter and €496 per year in Road Tax.

Wow that is insane! So by this calculation, you're basically paying over A THOUSAND EUROS a year ([€127 x 4] + €496 = €1004) just to OWN the car??? No wonder bicycles and trains are the preferred method of transportation! And I bet this doesn't even take into consideration the added costs for car insurance, petrol, and other costs associated with car ownership!
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Old May 4th, 2011, 05:43 AM   #5413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If you compare it to diesel, you'll see why the Dutch share of diesel vehicles is 4 times less than in Belgium or France.



Not to mention there are not many diesel vehicles weighing 1050 - 1150 kg.


I wonder how is the Electric and Hybrid car market in Holland? Does the savings and less dependency on petrol even make a difference compared to all the taxes?
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Old May 4th, 2011, 09:37 AM   #5414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertC79 View Post
Wow that is insane! So by this calculation, you're basically paying over A THOUSAND EUROS a year ([€127 x 4] + €496 = €1004) just to OWN the car??? No wonder bicycles and trains are the preferred method of transportation! And I bet this doesn't even take into consideration the added costs for car insurance, petrol, and other costs associated with car ownership!
Nah it's one or the other ( 127x4 or 496), you can choose to pay yearly or per 3 months and yearly is slightly cheaper.

There's also insurance of course, which isn't so high as in some countries (UK for example) but still high.


There is a tax free class of cars, small shopping carts like Toyota Aygo and hybrids fall in to this category. Which is why there's so many of those tiny carts around here, I'll never buy one though I want luxury and speed .
I also hate all that green **** and if it was up to me I'd stand in front of Greenpeace HQ with a hummer bouncing off the rev limiter .

Last edited by snowdog; May 4th, 2011 at 09:56 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 10:05 AM   #5415
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No wonder bicycles and trains are the preferred method of transportation!
Hehe, typical American stereotypical view of the Netherlands. 86% of all passenger traffic in the Netherlands is by car. That's only 6 percentage points lower than the United States.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 10:33 AM   #5416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertC79 View Post
Wow that is insane! So by this calculation, you're basically paying over A THOUSAND EUROS a year ([€127 x 4] + €496 = €1004) just to OWN the car??? And I bet this doesn't even take into consideration the added costs for car insurance, petrol, and other costs associated with car ownership!
I think most American pickup trucks would cost over €1.500 a year in road tax alone. About 5 years ago I found the road tax really ridiculous but since we have some of the best motorways in the world I don't mind so much anymore. I just hope our future governments continue to invest in road infrastructure and battle congestion like the past and current government.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #5417
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And I bet this doesn't even take into consideration the added costs for car insurance, petrol, and other costs associated with car ownership!
It was just published today that excise duty generated € 11.1 billion in revenue for the Dutch government. 70% of that are motor fuel duties, that's € 7.8 billion or 2.5 times the national government road spending (€ 3 billion) for 2011.

Of course, this is not the only source of revenue from motorists.

There are the following revenues;

* fuel excise duty: € 7.8 billion
* VAT over excise duty: € 1.5 billion
* vehicle owner tax: € 3.8 billion
* vehicle purchase tax: € 1.9 billion
* heavy vehicle tax: € 0.1 billion

grand total excluding regular VAT: € 15.1 billion

There are the following government expenses:

* public transport & rail infrastructure € 5.0 billion
* construction and maintenance of roads and bridges: € 3.0 billion

Then there is the following modal split:

* public transport: 22 billion passenger km (7.8%)
* car: 150 billion passenger km (87.2%)

Government investment per 1 billion passenger kilometers;

* public transport / rail: € 227 million
* car transport: € 20 million

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; May 4th, 2011 at 10:49 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #5418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertC79 View Post
Wow that is insane! So by this calculation, you're basically paying over A THOUSAND EUROS a year ([€127 x 4] + €496 = €1004) just to OWN the car???
Good lord, nono, I should have been clearer. You can opt to pay your Road Tax either per quarter OR per year. If you pay it per year, it's slightly cheaper (because: lower administration costs for the IRS).

Quote:
No wonder bicycles and trains are the preferred method of transportation!
Except they're not. Not by a long shot

Quote:
And I bet this doesn't even take into consideration the added costs for car insurance, petrol, and other costs associated with car ownership!
Although petrol is expensive here, cars are far more economical than in the US so it evens out to a rather smaller difference. Insurance is generally cheaper than in surrounding EU nations.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #5419
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It was just published today that excise duty generated € 11.1 billion in revenue for the Dutch government. 70% of that are motor fuel duties, that's € 7.8 billion or 2.5 times the national government road spending (€ 3 billion) for 2011.

Of course, this is not the only source of revenue from motorists.

There are the following revenues;

* fuel excise duty: € 7.8 billion
* VAT over excise duty: € 1.5 billion
* vehicle owner tax: € 3.8 billion
* vehicle purchase tax: € 1.9 billion
* heavy vehicle tax: € 0.1 billion

grand total excluding regular VAT: € 15.1 billion

There are the following government expenses:

* public transport & rail infrastructure € 5.0 billion
* construction and maintenance of roads and bridges: € 3.0 billion

Then there is the following modal split:

* public transport: 22 billion passenger km (7.8%)
* car: 150 billion passenger km (87.2%)

Government investment per 1 billion passenger kilometers;

* public transport / rail: € 227 million
* car transport: € 20 million
I dislike this type of display of statistics. Especially when it's followed by people using it as an argument to increase spending on road infrastructure.

We simply haven't adopted a tax system in this country where income A pays for expenditure A and income B pays for expenditure B.

If we did, road tax could decrease dramatically so that it ONLY covers spending on road infrastructure. That much is true.

However, your health insurance contributions would rise five or six fold. Education fees would be through the roof. And what to think of food? Those huge subsidies for our farms have to come from somewhere. If they only had to come from food VAT, we'd all be vegetarians and very skinny.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; May 4th, 2011 at 10:50 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 01:04 PM   #5420
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Sure, but the discrepancy nowadays is incredible. And still people dare to argue the motorist taxes do not nearly cover the cost of roads or public transport is not getting enough money compared to roads

So I don't think you can simply dismiss it as "this is not how our tax system works". You want to see results from your taxes. Especially since roads are a marginally € 3 billion on our € 250 billion government budget.
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