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Old June 22nd, 2011, 09:48 AM   #5661
lafreak84
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I don't know what idiot decided to close the A15 to do some "housework" or whatever it is that they're doing but the A15 from Brielle through Rotterdam towards Sliedrecht is in a complete LOCK! I think they said some 40km continuous traffic jam on that route! Absolute craziness, it will take hours to get traffic going again. Not to mention the side effects - A16, A4 and A20 in lockdown! Lucky for me I travel to city for work, the highway is locked in a direction towards Maasvlakte.

Also, the day before yesterday I went to Belgium and when I was coming back home in the middle of the night (2AM), from South the A16 in Dordrecht was closed due to road works with one small sign before the exit (via N3). How the hell am I suppose to know how to bypass A16. I was driving for an hour in Dordrecht because I couldn't cross the river and the navi kept taking me back to the highway. Some truck driver told me to go back, take the exit and follow N3 towards A15, then back to Rotterdam following Europoort.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 12:28 PM   #5662
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A15 Ressen - Zevenaar

The financing for the construction of A15 between interchange Ressen and future interchange Zevenaar (A12) has been completed. The new connection is 15 kilometers long and will cost € 1.1 billion, or € 73 million per kilometer. It runs through rural areas, and a bridge across the Pannerdensch Canal (Rhine River) will be constructed. The new motorway will be a tolled motorway, and completion is slated for 2018.

It is absolutely beyond me why this connection is so damn expensive.

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Old June 22nd, 2011, 12:53 PM   #5663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It is absolutely beyond me why this connection is so damn expensive.
Direct costs will be around M€ 25-50 for the A12 interchange, and M€ 50-100 for the riverbridge. 15 km of motorway will cost between M€ 200-350, without any overpasses or junctions. That makes perhaps M€ 500, without unforeseen reservation, risc calculation and environmental measures. I think Md€ 1,1 isn't that strange at all.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 12:57 PM   #5664
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It's more expensive than the Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere project on a per kilometer-basis... And I think a simple 2x2 motorway with a river bridge is incomparable to a massive widening with two large tunnels, a huge aqueduct and a new 12 lane bridge...

I do realize that the A15 will need at least two bridges over the railway lines (Betuwe Route and the regular railway from Arnhem to Oberhausen). If you include the widening of A12 it will get better. However, I would still think it should cost not much more than € 750 million.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; June 22nd, 2011 at 01:04 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 01:00 PM   #5665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
Direct costs will be around M€ 25-50 for the A12 interchange, and M€ 50-100 for the riverbridge. 15 km of motorway will cost between M€ 200-350, without any overpasses or junctions. That makes perhaps M€ 500, without unforeseen reservation, risc calculation and environmental measures. I think Md€ 1,1 isn't that strange at all.
That's way too much...

How will this motorway be tolled? Will they install toll booths? I guess that many people will still use the old A12 - Arnhem bypass - A325 route in this case.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 02:56 PM   #5666
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Render of A15:


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Old June 22nd, 2011, 03:49 PM   #5667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
The computer of a GTR can be reprogrammed, if you count the lines he passes in how many time you'll notice he isn't driving faster than about 205 kph, which is hardly so fast for an autoweg, I find the 100+ kph at the start of the vid in the residential area FAR more dangerous, 200+ on an expressway is hardly dangerous.

Dumb of him to record himself.
Hardly dangerous? Did you see the dam on the right? The turn? If you're going that fast and someone else on the other side of the turn who you can't see decides to pass another car with 105 km/h, you're ****ed. It's dumb, dangerous and retarded all together. This idiot should be prosecuted.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 05:15 PM   #5668
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This snapshot shocks me. There in no longer an A325 direction south to Nijmegen, and me expectation of a full highway linking Nijmegen to ARnhem is gone.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 05:17 PM   #5669
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Now I see why is this motorway so expensive... why is there such a long viaduct leading to the bridge? AFAIK NL dosen't have a problem with flooding since almost all rivers were turned intro controled channels.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 05:21 PM   #5670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This snapshot shocks me. There in no longer an A325 direction south to Nijmegen, and me expectation of a full highway linking Nijmegen to ARnhem is gone.
A325 south of interchange Ressen has been downgraded to a 50 km/h city road.

video:


Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Now I see why is this motorway so expensive... why is there such a long viaduct leading to the bridge? AFAIK NL dosen't have a problem with flooding since almost all rivers were turned intro controled channels.
This section is within the floodplain of the Pannerdensch Canal (de-facto a branch of the Rhine River). The cable-stayed bridge is not as big as it looks on this render. The normal summer-level river is only 180 meters wide.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 05:25 PM   #5671
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Originally Posted by Ni3lS View Post
Hardly dangerous? Did you see the dam on the right? The turn? If you're going that fast and someone else on the other side of the turn who you can't see decides to pass another car with 105 km/h, you're ****ed. It's dumb, dangerous and retarded all together. This idiot should be prosecuted.
What are you talking about ?

On the other side of the turn? What turn ? It's an expressway, nearly perfectly straight...

I stay by my point, what he does the first 18 seconds is MANY times more dangerous than what he does on the expresway, a nearly perfectly straight piece of road, barely any traffic, he only passes a couple of cars and none in groups of 2 ( so highly unlikely someone will turn out in front of him to overtake). Going 50 kph to fast in built up area's is FAR worse than going 100 kph to fast on motorways and expresways imo.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:46 PM   #5672
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Will the A18 change it's number to A15, because there are now plans to have two junctions on the A12?
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:49 PM   #5673
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Technically A18 is rijksweg 15.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 08:58 PM   #5674
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I know, that's why I asked about it.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 09:00 PM   #5675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
That's way too much...

How will this motorway be tolled? Will they install toll booths? I guess that many people will still use the old A12 - Arnhem bypass - A325 route in this case.
They are still thinking about it, but it's likely to be French style toll booths. This would mean they'd accept major fuel cards as well for payment, like Eurotrafic, Routex, Shell, Esso etc etc.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 11:30 PM   #5676
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I guess it is overpriced, because it will be tolled (is it a PPP contract?).
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 11:39 PM   #5677
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It is a PPP-project, but only partially. Right now, the national government is willing to pay € 385 million, the regional governments will pay € 370 something million, but the total costs are just over € 1 billion for this 15 kilometer motorway. Hence, the missing funding will have to be provided by tolls.

If the toll is set for € 8 trucks, and € 2 passenger cars, the approximate annual toll revenue is around € 45 million per year. So, the missing funding can be repaid in about 7 years, which would indicate the new motorway could become toll free after that time (i.e. the year 2025).
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 11:45 PM   #5678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If the toll is set for € 8 trucks, and € 2 passenger cars, the approximate annual toll revenue is around € 45 million per year. So, the missing funding can be repaid in about 7 years
Make it 15-20 years. It's a commercial loan...
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 11:48 PM   #5679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It is a PPP-project, but only partially. Right now, the national government is willing to pay € 385 million, the regional governments will pay € 370 something million, but the total costs are just over € 1 billion for this 15 kilometer motorway. Hence, the missing funding will have to be provided by tolls.

If the toll is set for € 8 trucks, and € 2 passenger cars, the approximate annual toll revenue is around € 45 million per year. So, the missing funding can be repaid in about 7 years, which would indicate the new motorway could become toll free after that time (i.e. the year 2025).
Once it's functioning as a tollroad, it will always function as a tollroad, because why lose out on a good thing when by 2025 nobody will know any better. Plus, it may function as a congestion relieve road, just like the M6 Toll in England. There are calls to scrap the Dartford tolls now, that will never happen neither....
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 12:51 AM   #5680
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Quote:
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What are you talking about ?

On the other side of the turn? What turn ? It's an expressway, nearly perfectly straight...

I stay by my point, what he does the first 18 seconds is MANY times more dangerous than what he does on the expresway, a nearly perfectly straight piece of road, barely any traffic, he only passes a couple of cars and none in groups of 2 ( so highly unlikely someone will turn out in front of him to overtake). Going 50 kph to fast in built up area's is FAR worse than going 100 kph to fast on motorways and expresways imo.
You don't know that before you hit the gas pedal now do you? And when you find out it's mostly too late. I agree with you that the first part is more dangerous than the second. Though that's only because there was almost nobody on the road. But that's something you can't rely on. And yes there is a curve in the road [at the end], watch it again.

And kph is something different than km/h LOL.
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