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Old July 4th, 2011, 02:46 AM   #5741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
Nothing fine about it. Every morning rush-hour it's a bottleneck creating a lot of congestion.
Of course, that doesn't have anything to do with it being a good road, there's a road there, re-use it as some kind of local road, make use of the asphalt and space, I'm all for routing the motorway around Badhoevedorp if that's what it means to fix a traffic problem, however, don't waste the old road...

Find some way to make it fulfil a function, rather than throwing it away.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 08:57 AM   #5742
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The old motorway will serve no purpose anymore, it's far too expensive to keep it connected to the new motorway network around Badhoevedorp. Mind you the new motorway is only 1 km from the old one.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 09:26 AM   #5743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
make use of the asphalt and space
Every citizen of Badhoevedorp will be glad when the space is re-used - for non road issues. The complete embankment and it's too low viaductsvmust be removed to provide space for redevelopment. There's also no use anymore for any main road right trough Badhoevedorp - local traffic doesn't need it.

So why trrowing away all that space and money for an expensive road that isn't of any need anymore ?
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Old July 4th, 2011, 09:29 AM   #5744
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Can you guys post a link to google maps showing me that road that will be demolished?
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:30 AM   #5745
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Can you guys post a link to google maps showing me that road that will be demolished?
http://www.rws.nl/images/Luchtfoto%2...174-278523.pdf
You can check out the old and new situation over there
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Old July 4th, 2011, 12:14 PM   #5746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlchris View Post
http://www.rws.nl/images/Luchtfoto%2...174-278523.pdf
You can check out the old and new situation over there
Thank you.

It looks fair to me. Take out A9 from the city and make a bypass instead. That area could be transformed to a urban 1+1 road and with the remaining space they could do some parks or something...
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Old July 4th, 2011, 06:38 PM   #5747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Thank you.

It looks fair to me. Take out A9 from the city and make a bypass instead. That area could be transformed to a urban 1+1 road and with the remaining space they could do some parks or something...
That's a lot like, but on a smaller scale, to what is being done with I-40 in central Oklahoma City, OK. Similar reroutes were also done within the past few years with I-30 in downtown Fort Worth, TX and with I-195 in downtown Providence, RI.

Where appropriate, I do like the ideas of rebuilding the highway by rerouting the motorway on a better course, removing it from a place where it really doesn't belong while getting a much better, more useful transport corridor in return.

Oklahoma City:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=35.461369...87891&t=k&z=14
The reroute of that major east-west transcontinental highway is visible being built along that railroad corridor closer to the river.

Fort Worth:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=32.746497...43945&t=k&z=15
Remnants of the former routing of east-west I-30 are visible a couple of blocks north of the new, current highway.

Providence:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.817161...43945&t=k&z=15
The old I-195 is that east-west freeway that is snaking around closer to the downtown core.

Mike
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:53 PM   #5748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
Providence:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.817161...43945&t=k&z=15
The old I-195 is that east-west freeway that is snaking around closer to the downtown core.
Well, I think the state of the road was also reason to build a complete new one... Streetview: http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.818852...245.96,,0,-4.1
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Old July 6th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #5749
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A4 Delft - Schiedam

The most intense and longest lasting legal battle in the history of Dutch motorway construction has been settled after 54 years. Today, the Council of State dismissed all appeals against the construction of 7 kilometers A4 between Delft and Schiedam, near Rotterdam. On September 2nd, then-minister Eurlings signed the record of decision, against which 23 parties appealed. Some were declared a non-interest group. Other appeals were dismissed. Construction can proceed and will commence this fall. The A4 will be constructed within a depressed trench, with a full tunnel in Schiedam. The right-of-way has been available since the 1960's, hence no expropriation is required. The motorway will open in 2015. The cost for the 7 kilometer motorway is € 891 million.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 05:08 PM   #5750
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Miracles do happen, even in the Netherlands.

To give some background on what happened since the 1960s: our court proceedings do not take 54 years. In fact, the battle was more a political one rather than a legal one, with various governments planning construction to start within their legislature. But there was always some cause for delay, or even complete removal of the project.

One key moment was in the late 1970s when the municipality of Schiedam refused to change its zoning notwithstanding the fact that Parliament had passed the project. While that status quo lasted, the next legislature passed a resolution that construction be stopped again ...

Eventually the previous government resolved (another) approval of the project in September 2010. Only then the present litigation started, with a final ruling within nine months. Which is not too bad at all, I would say. Anyway, I look forward to finally driving on the road that has been on maps since my childhood - albeit stated to be under construction.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 06:01 PM   #5751
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New road is good news for the most jammed Rotterdam area I guess.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #5752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The cost for the 7 kilometer motorway is € 891 million.
Hey, I've got news for you:
Using gold for crash barriers is not really safe!

Seriously, why the hell is this so damn expensive?
Building 7 km of motorway including a longer tunnel doesn't realy cost more than 400 million EUR maximum (normal is 75 - 200 million EUR).
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Old July 6th, 2011, 08:50 PM   #5753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABRob View Post
Hey, I've got news for you:
Using gold for crash barriers is not really safe!

Seriously, why the hell is this so damn expensive?
Building 7 km of motorway including a longer tunnel doesn't realy cost more than 400 million EUR maximum (normal is 75 - 200 million EUR).
Partly tunnelled with a park on top.
Other part half sunken.

Eco morons and NIMBY whingers demanded such ****.

They could have built it far cheaper by just building it normally like any other country.
They also seem to call pastures with a couple of trees ''beautiful nature area''.

Last edited by snowdog; July 6th, 2011 at 09:23 PM.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #5754
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The A4 near Schiedam now (OK, in 2006, but nothing has been changed since then )
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Old July 6th, 2011, 10:17 PM   #5755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A4 Delft - Schiedam

The most intense and longest lasting legal battle in the history of Dutch motorway construction has been settled after 54 years. Today, the Council of State dismissed all appeals against the construction of 7 kilometers A4 between Delft and Schiedam, near Rotterdam. On September 2nd, then-minister Eurlings signed the record of decision, against which 23 parties appealed. Some were declared a non-interest group. Other appeals were dismissed. Construction can proceed and will commence this fall. The A4 will be constructed within a depressed trench, with a full tunnel in Schiedam. The right-of-way has been available since the 1960's, hence no expropriation is required. The motorway will open in 2015. The cost for the 7 kilometer motorway is € 891 million.


Finally, one of the worst highway gaps in all of Europe will be completed!

Now, for the rest of those gaps in that corridor farther south.

Mike
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Old July 6th, 2011, 10:39 PM   #5756
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The A4 near Schiedam now (OK, in 2006, but nothing has been changed since then )
I find amazing how the Dutch can set land aside and leave it there for decades until an infrastructure finally gets built.

They could build a highway there for € 160 million is they wanted to. Just about micro-earth moving and paving.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 01:19 AM   #5757
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Quote:
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Partly tunnelled with a park on top.
Other part half sunken.
Yes, I know. But this don't cost 900 millions. Even a 7km tunnel isn't that expensive... (8km Rennsteigtunnel in Germany: 250 million EUR).

The first german newspapers are also wondering:
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0...772748,00.html
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Old July 7th, 2011, 08:56 AM   #5758
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It is when you're building a motorway in soup. You can't compare a tunnel in sand or rock soil with what we have in western Netherlands. (there is a reason why they originally wanted to build this motorway on a 5 m tall embankment in the 1960's).

Here's an impression of the depressed section:

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; July 7th, 2011 at 09:20 AM.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 11:25 AM   #5759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABRob View Post
Yes, I know. But this don't cost 900 millions. Even a 7km tunnel isn't that expensive... (8km Rennsteigtunnel in Germany: 250 million EUR).

The first german newspapers are also wondering:
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0...772748,00.html
It's not rocket science. We live on, essentially, quick sand. Building anything is expensive here. Have you ever been to the beach and tried to dig a hole just inches from the sea where the sand is all soggy and turbulent? Doesn't work very well, does it? Well that's what we live on. Loose sand.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 02:07 PM   #5760
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The last 130 km/h trials will commence today on the following motorways:

- A17/A58 Moerdijk (interchange Klaverpolder) - Bergen op Zoom (interchange Zoomland), 35 km
- A32 Steenwijk - Heerenveen-Zuid, 19 km
- A37 Hoogeveen – Klazienaveen, 35 km
- A58 Bergen op Zoom (exit Rilland) - Vlissingen (exit Rithem), 44 km
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