daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 21st, 2007, 04:10 PM   #601
kosimodo
Mapmaker
 
kosimodo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Aalborg
Posts: 2,148
Likes (Received): 372

Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
Coming from Amsterdam the A4 goes from 2x5 (Schiphol) to 2x2 (North) to 2x3 (Middle) to 2x2 (South) to 2x3 (The Hague).
Bit unfair to state that the A4 goes from 2x5 to 2x2... cause in fact it is a forksituation where it goes from 2x5 to 2 times 2x2.. (A44)
kosimodo no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 21st, 2007, 04:46 PM   #602
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Yeah, but the A4 handles most throughtraffic, and has a much higer volume than A44.

Like the A10 Coentunnel in Amsterdam, the A4 is substandard, with a narrow 2x2 without any hard shoulders. This should have been solved 25 years ago, but it hasn't, and the A4 is therefore the worst traffic situation in queues near the Ringvaart Aquaduct.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; November 21st, 2007 at 05:35 PM.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2007, 05:18 PM   #603
pospanko
BANNED
 
pospanko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sarajevo
Posts: 399
Likes (Received): 1

yeah, I remember driving under those buildings that was great time in the netherlands
pospanko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2007, 05:33 PM   #604
Des
Traveller
 
Des's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MUC
Posts: 2,438
Likes (Received): 806

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosimodo View Post
Bit unfair to state that the A4 goes from 2x5 to 2x2... cause in fact it is a forksituation where it goes from 2x5 to 2 times 2x2.. (A44)
That's common sense, was just to state that there are still two 2x2 stretches in the A4 that need to be upgraded urgently.

And in the table CborG posted you can see the 2x5 bit handles 162.794 cars between Nieuw-Vennep and Kn. Burgerveen. Just after the knooppunt the 2x2 bit has to handle 107.352 cars. So a majority continues on the A4.
__________________
Car News

Last edited by Des; November 21st, 2007 at 05:46 PM.
Des no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2007, 12:35 AM   #605
Joshapd
....okay?!?!?
 
Joshapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 1,990
Likes (Received): 1

This site is where i got my map from:
http://www.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.js...5fe415&lang=nl

Some other info in English:
http://www.traverse.nl.sharepointsit...rm.aspx?ID=106
__________________
love, 爱, _ 愛, liefde, amour, Liebe, αγάπη, amore, 愛

사랑 , amor, любовь, amor, kjærlighet, სიყვარული,

ტრფობა, szerelem, miłość, yêu, אהבה ,ask,

mehebbet,pag-ibig, esgh, รัก!
Joshapd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2007, 01:37 AM   #606
pmaciej7
Cooperator Veritatis
 
pmaciej7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Haplogrupa, głupcze
Posts: 21,837

Hello, can someone answer my question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmaciej7 View Post
(...)does this map mean, that Afsluitdijk (...) will be closed for traffic or pulled down?
pmaciej7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2007, 08:48 AM   #607
Jeroen669
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Likes (Received): 13

It's just a fantasy map, and not a very realistic one (unless the Netherlands would have a population of 50 million or something like that). But the afsluitdijk ("afsluit" = obstructing) has an more important function than offering a connection between Friesland and Noord-Holland. So yes, in the Netherlands we know now, it still would have been needed.
Jeroen669 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 06:47 PM   #608
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

[IMG]http://i17.************/8fkn14l.png[/IMG]

So this is the view of the next 30km;

[IMG]http://i18.************/6q8a1d1.png[/IMG]
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 12:27 AM   #609
CborG
Rick Bakker
 
CborG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Culemborg
Posts: 4,947
Likes (Received): 372

Proposed national road network in 1932. It is the foundation of the Dutch road network and the present network is largely based on this map.
Just a few planned routes on this map are never realized or differ from the present situation by location.

__________________
Ik ben niet gek.... Ik ben Psychisch Onverklaarbaar.
CborG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 12:33 AM   #610
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Rushhours went nuts the last couple of days...

Thursday, the evening rushhour started at 12.30 and lasted till 20.30, and today, evening rushhour started around 12.30 and lasted to 21.00
The number of hours when there are a lot of traffic jams grows and grows, and will eventually last all the livelong day.
The number of traffic jams are sometimes insane too, it usually tips one hundred traffic traffic jams at the same time.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 12:36 AM   #611
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Funny map, 7 motorways radiating out of Zwolle (my hometown). Today only 3 motorways radiate out. But i don't think all of them are necessary. Only the A35 heading southeast to Almelo would be very useful, and an A34 is a long term project, however i doubt if it ever will give an A34, but there are plans to widen the existing N340 to 2x2 lanes with controlled acces. That's just only one step (emergency lanes) away from a motorway.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 08:34 PM   #612
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Mileage tax by 2011

The Dutch government decided that they will implement mileage tax in phases within the next few years. Trucks will be the first ones to pay in 2011, other drivers will follow the year after that.

The target is to implement a GPS tracking system by 2016, so all roads nationwide will be tolled per kilometer, instead of the usual road taxes and taxes over car purchases.

Minister Camiel Eurlings of transportation will use modern satellite-techniques for exact registration of the driven miles. There will be no toll gates or any physical signs of tolls along the roads.

Within the next years, the usual road taxes will disappear, and most of the car purchase taxes, which can be set for each individual car, fuel-efficient cars have to pay almost no car taxes, and fuel inefficient cars will have more car-taxes.

The system causes controversy, because of privacy issues, the government is possible to track every move a citizen takes by car. Another issue is that commuters are afraid they have to pay even more to commute to work, while the Netherlands is already one of the most expensive countries in the world when it comes to car-usage.
Also, some claim traffic jams will not reduce, because people just have to go to work, and do not face traffic jams unless they really have to. It has already been called "paying for driving in traffic jams". Others claim the lower income class would be affected the first with the high price for commuting. Some fear more people would rather be unemployed than paying so much for commuting.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 08:51 PM   #613
TheCat
IsraCanadian :)
 
TheCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,358
Likes (Received): 6

Wow, you guys already have one of the highest gas prices in the world. Keeping a car must be unimaginably expensive.
__________________
Check out my driving videos on Youtube | Please visit the Highways & Autobahns forum
TheCat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 10:42 PM   #614
CborG
Rick Bakker
 
CborG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Culemborg
Posts: 4,947
Likes (Received): 372

The current motorway network in blue over the old map:

__________________
Ik ben niet gek.... Ik ben Psychisch Onverklaarbaar.
CborG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 11:01 PM   #615
Qaabus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 327
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
Wow, you guys already have one of the highest gas prices in the world. Keeping a car must be unimaginably expensive.
Not really.
Qaabus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2007, 11:17 PM   #616
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

You pay 42% extra if you buy a new car. I am against this, it doesn´t encourage people to buy a new car, which are more safe and more important; cleaner and better for the environment, especially with diesel engines, which improved remarkably in the last 5 - 10 years.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 02:15 AM   #617
Qaabus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 327
Likes (Received): 4

Cars don't even cost half what they cost in Denmark.
Qaabus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 01:01 PM   #618
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Yep, in the Netherlands, you pay 142% of the original price, in Denmark, it's 180%. But it's just a case where the government is always mooching off of drivers, they know mobility is one of the most important things in a househould to spend money on. mobility isn't very price-elastic, because, the rising gas prices we saw in the last decade was almost the same as couple of times the mileage tax, and traffic jams didn't reduce, only increased in fact.

Unless the government wants to make mobility so expensive it's only affordable for the elite and upperclass. That's like stepping back to the Soviet era.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 06:13 PM   #619
Jeroen669
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
Wow, you guys already have one of the highest gas prices in the world. Keeping a car must be unimaginably expensive.
Maybe it's nice to compare it with American standards? What do you pay for your car in a month alltogether? (so fuel, insurance, redemption (had to look up that word), maintenance and (other) taxes)
Jeroen669 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2007, 07:43 PM   #620
TheCat
IsraCanadian :)
 
TheCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,358
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
Maybe it's nice to compare it with American standards? What do you pay for your car in a month alltogether? (so fuel, insurance, redemption (had to look up that word), maintenance and (other) taxes)
Well, I can say something about Canada, which is a little more expensive than the US, but similar nonetheless. Unfortunately I can't tell you exactly the prices for everything (perhaps other forumers can), since I don't personally own a car, but I just drive my parents' car, and so my main expense is the extra insurance premium and fuel (when I drive).

Prices are in Canadian dollars, which are now worth just a little more than US dollars (almost exactly the same).

Fuel prices fluctuate, but in Canada they are about $1/Litre, for the lowest octane rating. In the US, depending on the location, they are slightly lower (they price by the gallon). A few years ago Canada (or was it just Ontario?) introduced a fuel tax, but it's very small compared to European taxes. If you own a typical American car, you will be paying quite a lot for fuel because many American cars (especially those with large engines, of course) can consume quite a lot of fuel. Our first car consumed sometimes 18L/100km inside the city. A smaller Japanese or European car generally consumes less, but of course there are many exceptions.

Insurance varies highly depending on the location, car, and driving record, but this is where I think our prices are high. I have a lot of complaints about the insurance industry in North America, and I think that they are a bunch of criminals. If you get involved in any accident, and I mean any at all, your insurance can easily double, triple, or quadruple in a matter of a few days. If it's your fault, you are screwed. If the accident is classified to be an act of God (i.e. due to bad weather conditions, etc.), you are still screwed. If the accident occurs on private property (such as a parking lot), it is 50% your fault automatically even if it's totally not your fault, and you are screwed. If it's not your fault, then you still might be screwed, although not necessarily You get my point.

My dad was involved in a pretty bad accident during a winter storm a few years back. Luckily, he got away with minor injuries, but the car was destroyed. The accident was classified as an act of God by the police, but our insurance tripled, and for a while we weren't even sure that we could afford a car anymore. We did, however, buy a much smaller Japanese car. Technically, this means that often people don't report minor/medium accidents to the insurance company, if possible, because if you make a claim (i.e. actually use the insurance company's services), you will be screwed for the next 10 years. This is in contrast with Israel (where I used to live long ago), where making a claim to the insurance company does not usually raise your premium (or does not raise it significantly).

Because of the accident, my dad was paying about $250/month insurance on a 7-year-old car. I think now the premium is a little lower, but still high. If you have a perfect record with no accident, however, the price can be much lower. If you are a new driver (under 25) and want your own car, the insurance is usually very expensive.

Insuring me as a secondary driver on my parents' car costs me an extra $1000/year, on top of what my parents are paying.

When it comes to maintenance, the standards in North America are extremely low. You do not have to ever test your car for absolutely anything (i.e. good state of repair is completely unimportant here ). This is quite dangerous in my opinion (because theoretically one can put almost anything on the road, as long as it drives), but the advantage is much lower costs compared to Europe. Instead, there is a law in my province requiring cars to undergo emissions testing, i.e. how much pollution the car produces. Generally, the testing is done every 2 years, and it costs $35.

Vehicle registration (license plate stickers) has to be renewed either annually or bi-annually. The cost for one year is $74, and $148 for two years. These are the renewal prices for Southern Ontario (where I live). In Northern Ontario the costs are about half as much.

One very important cost is actually the one incurred before one owns a car, i.e. the cost to get a driver's license. It is generally much cheaper than in Europe, simply because in North America people do not have to get driving lessons to get a license. You simply pass your theory test and get a Learner's Permit (in every province/state the system and hence the names of the different license types are a little different, but the idea is the same). Once you get your Learner's Permit, you can start driving right away with an accompanying licensed driver. Technically, that driver can teach you how to drive, and then after some time (e.g. 1 year) you pass your practical test, and get your license.

In my province, you pay $125 for the theory test to get a class G1 license, which allows you to drive with an accompanying driver, but you may not drive on the motorway. This cost also includes the cost of the first practical test. You do your practical test after 1 year, and you get a class G2 license, which is pretty much a full license, but it expires, and you must have zero alcohol level while driving. This test costs $40 if you don't pass from the first try (since the initial $100 covers the first test). Then, after a minimum of 1 year (but maximum 4), you have to pass another driving test, which also involves driving on a motorway, to get a class G (full). This test costs $75. There isn't a real difference between a G2 and G class (except for some restrictions, such as alcohol level), but you must get your G within 5 years of getting the G1. If you just drive with a G2 and let it expire (something that I'm afraid might happen to me, unless I act quickly this summer ), you have to pass the whole process again, except that you don't have to wait the 1 year periods between each class. It's stupid, and in my opinion just a way to get more money for the government.

Well, sorry if this was a little too long, but this is a pretty detailed breakdown of most of the prices, I think. Come to think of it, maybe we should open a special thread on the different licensing requirements in different countries in the world, should be interesting
__________________
Check out my driving videos on Youtube | Please visit the Highways & Autobahns forum

Last edited by TheCat; December 2nd, 2007 at 07:50 PM.
TheCat no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
congestion, dutch, friesland, highways, motorways, netherlands

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium