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Old October 20th, 2011, 04:44 PM   #6221
ChrisZwolle
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Well, the projected traffic volumes for the A4 around Steenbergen are over 60 000 vehicles per day. A substantial amount will come from A16-A17, and drive via A29-A4. This means the Haringvliet Bridge, which is quite old, narrow, dangerous and opens often for shipping, is technically obsolete. It opened to traffic in 1964. Current traffic volumes are 48.000 vehicles per day. Add another 20.000 to that and delays will become more substantial due to frequent bridge openings.

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Old October 20th, 2011, 04:59 PM   #6222
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It's a corridor that needs substantial upgrades. Although not that much traffic would drive long distances, it is mainly truck traffic, which cause more traffic congestion per vehicle than a passenger car. The main choke points are A20 in Rotterdam, A16 across the Meuse, A16 in Dordrecht, A16 across the Hollands Diep and E19/R1 around Antwerpen.

With this corridor, Western Netherlands - Antwerp - France can be streamlined. There are 4 missing links, including one in Belgium;

* A4 Delft - Schiedam (2015)
* A4 Hoogvliet - Klaaswaal
* A4 Dinteloord - Bergen op Zoom (2013)
* R2 Antwerpen - Sint-Niklaas

Two of these are currently not planned, but would help a lot of creating a fast corridor that bypasses the aforementioned trouble spots. I think the Liefkenshoek Tunnel (R2) in Antwerpen should become toll free to support this.

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Old October 20th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #6223
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I would imagine the province of Zeeland would be willing to financially support a widening of the Haringvlietbridge considering the latest moves to improve the overall status of the Deltaworks and the fact that it would help reduce truck traffic between Rotterdam and Belgium on the N57. Having previously worked for that provincial government, I would recommend Rijkswaterstaat expore the option.

Agreed on the Liefkenshoek, but that's slightly outside our jurisdiction.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 05:11 PM   #6224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
I would imagine the province of Zeeland would be willing to financially support a widening of the Haringvlietbridge considering the latest moves to improve the overall status of the Deltaworks and the fact that it would help reduce truck traffic between Rotterdam and Belgium on the N57. Having previously worked for that provincial government, I would recommend Rijkswaterstaat expore the option.
As I said before, it would be even better to develop a 3rd Rotterdam port - Belgium corridor transforming N57 into A57 + link to Westercheldttunnel.

Some of the Zeeland islands don't even have a single km of motorways, whereas each island should have A57 + a spur connecting further inland. That would incentive development and population growth. Imagine people commuting from Zeeland to the Rotterdam port area daily.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 05:20 PM   #6225
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As I said before, it would be even better to develop a 3rd Rotterdam port - Belgium corridor transforming N57 into A57 + link to Westercheldttunnel.

Some of the Zeeland islands don't even have a single km of motorways, whereas each island should have A57 + a spur connecting further inland. That would incentive development and population growth. Imagine people commuting from Zeeland to the Rotterdam port area daily.
Let's analyze what you're asking Zeeland to do here:

1) Improve the status of the Rotterdam seaport over the back of Zeeland seaports.

2) Ruin the tourist heartland (the backbone of the local economy) with motorways and truck traffic.

It makes no sense, man. Zeeland doesn't need steep population growth, its current mix of low growth and minor decline (depending on the area) is being very well coped with and is inspiring worthy investments in the tourist industry. Additionally, the province is increasingly tapping into the swiftly expanding markets of wealthy pensioners by expanding nature reserve areas and planning other green zones such as golf courses.

Zeeland stands to gain a lot from guiding the bulk of seaport activity and logistics around itself. Which is what it's very wisely been doing for the past decades. The province sees itself as a green park area between the busy industrial zones of Zeebrugge-Gent-Antwerpen-Moerdijk-Rotterdam. Investments in local seaports has been prudent and always been accompanied by R&D.

You're saying decades of policy should be thrown overboard and the government should make a complete U-turn. And destroy itself in the process.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 05:25 PM   #6226
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I agree. Upgrading the N57 to motorway will prove too costly. The traffic volumes are rather low, for example the Oosterschelde Storm Surge Barrier carries only 6.600 vehicles per day. Compared to a completed A4, N57 is also too far west.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #6227
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A full motorway will be difficult due to space constraints, but it would be nice if the N57 would be a 'pragmatic' expressway without the traffic lights and roundabouts it has in some places now. There is enough space for an alternating 1+1 or 2+1 or in some places 2+2 alignment.

Missing links around Burgh-Haamstede and Vrouwenpolder won't destroy the tourist industry, and transforming the roundabouts and traffic lights to grade separated junctions would really help in the connectivity to the rest of the country IMHO.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 08:09 PM   #6228
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That's true up to a point but it's not very necessary. Even from Middelburg, the A4 to Rotterdam would be quicker than the N57. Don't forget that Rotterdam (the city) is pretty far inland.

Which is why the N roads in Zeeland have been widened Southward around the Western Scheldt Tunnel. The Y formation of the N roads from Goes/Middelburg to the tunnel is mostly 2x2 (or will be soon). Additionally, new investments South of the tunnel between Terneuzen and the Belgian border are also expanding the road to a comfortable 2x2 expressway (google Sluiskiltunnel for more information).

To be perfectly honest, the provincial government has very sensible and efficient policies in this field. The N57 around Middelburg has been expanded where it was necessary. The roads to Belgium through the Western Scheldt Tunnel have also received (and continue to receive) big investments. They're doing all the right things in that part of the country imo.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #6229
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The part that needs widening is between Hellevoetsluis and the N15 towards Rotterdam. That part is extremey congested and the (turbo)roundabouts aren't really helping traffic flow (they're actually only making it worse...) They should also somehow change the 'interchange' (don't know the right word for it now...) with the N15, because that's really weird and only has 1 lane in the busiest direction, which is towards Rotterdam. And when you want to go to Rotterdam, you have to make a weird loop (see the link above)

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Originally Posted by woutero View Post
Missing links around Burgh-Haamstede and Vrouwenpolder won't destroy the tourist industry, and transforming the roundabouts and traffic lights to grade separated junctions would really help in the connectivity to the rest of the country IMHO.
That one is already there (see video of N57 one page back)
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Old October 20th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #6230
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N57 could use some safe passing lanes. It's a road where a lot of people tend to travel longer distances than average on, which means you do want to offer comfortable passing lanes.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 11:37 PM   #6231
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The only Dutch motorway that has a song. And an excellent driving song at that!

That's not true, In the seventies Roek Williams already made a song on the E35 Zwolle - Amersfoort (now A28-E232)

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Old October 22nd, 2011, 05:00 PM   #6232
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Rijksstraatwegen

First of all, I'm sorry if this issue has been spoken or solved before.

Long time ago, when automobiles were something new, before the National Roads Plan of 1927, granddaddy of all Dutch motorways, was even a concept, there was a network of roads, some even tolled, which linked the main cities within the Netherlands and abroad: the rijksstraatwegen.

I was checking Google satellite images yesterday, and I was surprised to see that, differently from France, Spain or even Belgium, this old network is not evidently present in the network today. Even today, you can follow the old Napoleonic times route between - technically - Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam; but yesterday I was following the route in Google Maps following the route - is not difficult: the straightest route in a sea of small, winding roads is probably the old one. From Paris to Antwerp, it was all pretty straightforward, but after Breda, puft, the main road vanished and I could not follow it from there.

I know that there are actual rijkstraatwegen in use today: the N200 between Amsterdam and Haarlem, I believe, is one of those. But here is a question for our Dutch forumers: how much of the old network is present today, even under a truckload of traffic pacifiers? Could I follow today the route that a Napoleonic courier should have followed between (e.g.) Amsterdam and Rotterdam?

Thank you in advance for your help.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 06:13 PM   #6233
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You'll struggle to uncover the old network, it would require a lot of digging in the national archives.

The short story is that many rijksstraatwegen were initially abandoned in the second half of the 19th century because the government shifted its focus on infrastructure from roads to railways (that's an old controversy, then). Rijksstraatwegen were left to whither or, in some cases, degraded from 4,5 meters in width to 3,5 meters in width to lower maintenance costs.

By the time the motorcar came to pass and roads became important again in the 1920s, the Rijkswegen took over.

The old Rijksstraatwegen are either;
1) gone,
2) turned into provincial roads,
3) turned into N-roads,
4) turned into motorways.

Short of diving into historic records, you could perform a google maps search of Rijksstraatwegen, Rijkswegen and Oude Rijkswegen. That will lead you to most of them.

Or asks the local tourist board of whichever province you want to go. They should know.
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Old October 23rd, 2011, 02:21 AM   #6234
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A well known example of a rijksstraatweg still in use is the N225 from Utrecht to Arnhem. It's a beautiful road actually and in many places you can taste the historic importance of the connection.
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Old October 23rd, 2011, 04:58 PM   #6235
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Reffering to the N57 passing lanes - I do find it quite hard to understand why so few roads in NL have passing lanes - grade separated expressways should be more 2+1 than 1+1 wherever possible, this would greatly improve commuter time not increasing cost (ie build third lane where the road is just on terrain level, not in bridge/tunnel).
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Old October 23rd, 2011, 10:30 PM   #6236
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Let me show you a map first and then ask a question.


The map shows a short bit of a road in Venlo which is marked as A61 (from roundabout to the German border). Is this road signed as such?

I found a picture in the internet which actually does not help me too much, but may work as a clue for some.

http://www.geolocation.ws/v/W/4e58b2...al-motorway/en
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Old October 23rd, 2011, 11:00 PM   #6237
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Yes, that sign is on the Kaldenkerkerweg, leading directly to the roundabout at which A61 terminates. However, motorway status does not begin until the German border. All of this will be history in about half a year when A61 is rerouted to connect with Dutch A74 which is nearly completed.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 01:21 PM   #6238
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What is happening on Knoopunt Ewijk? All of trees were cut out. Is it connected with widening of WallBrug?
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Old October 24th, 2011, 01:26 PM   #6239
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Yep, interchange Ewijk will get a flyover, and interchange Valburg will get one too. That's why they have to cut trees, they have to make room for the flyover. And that is indeed connected with the widening of the Waalburg
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Old October 24th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #6240
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Both interchange Ewijk and Valburg will be reconstructed. Interchange Ewijk will get a turbine connector from Arnhem towards Venlo, and N322 will be swapped with this connector to improve traffic flow. At the same time, interchange Valburg will be reconstructed into a cloverturbine, getting two turbine connectors for traffic between A15 and A50 to and from the south.

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