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Old November 22nd, 2011, 11:59 AM   #6341
Slagathor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Sorry, but if that's the real reason: that's bullcrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
//mindfart:
Lots of exits and entrances shouldn't matter
Annoyingly, it rather does matter a lot for 2x2 motorways. Our driving on motorways depends in no small part on the entrance ramps (exits don't matter in this context). When new cars come on the motorway, we give them space by going left. That means several slower moving vehicles from the right lane suddenly pass onto the left lane.
That's not a big problem on 2x3 motorways because there's a third lane that's exempt from this motion where other motorists can easily do 140km/h. But when there are only 2 lanes, there is a problem.

You might argue that much of this problem could be erased if passenger cars could speed up to 140km/h on the entrance ramps, but that means extending many of them because many are not currently suitable for such a feat.

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Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Also remove the truck limiters.
That's a horrible idea. Trucks are responsible for enough deadly accidents as it is.

What you need to do is: remove the trucks. Freight should be transported by railway or waterway. The province of Zeeland had an interesting brainwave a few years ago when it was suggested to construct a cheap "conveyor belt" in the median of the A58 between the seaports of Vlissingen and Moerdijk. The conveyor belt would move shipping containers at a speed of up to 50km/h. The idea was to remove a huge amount of trucks off the road, thereby effectively canceling all congestion in the area. The idea never materialized, but frankly I don't understand why. It's ideal. We need to get the slow, heavy, dangerous trucks off the road. Especially because there are so many of them. They cause jams. And they wear out the road surface much quicker than do passenger cars. Get 'm out.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 12:55 PM   #6342
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Traffic congestion down 30%

Traffic congestion is down by 30 percent, according to Rijkswaterstaat. The widening of motorways and additional shoulder running have significantly improved traffic flow. Congestion was reduced by 30 percent from July to half November, compared to 2010, when it was also down compared to 2009. Congestion is at its lowest level in 8 years, while traffic volumes increased by 2.2 percent at the same time.

Some figures:

Traffic volumes increased by 2.2% in Q3 2011. Vehicle lost hours declined by 25.2%. Traffic congestion was down by 33.6% in Q3.

Highest congestion growth was on A9 between Haarlem and Alkmaar, due to roadworks. Lost vehicle hours increased by 94 000 hours. At the same time, the biggest winner is A12 between Utrecht and Gouda, where the single additional lane caused a reduction of 859 000 lost vehicle hours.

64.5 billion vehicle kilometers from January to September 2011. An increase of 16% compared to the year 2000.

58 million lost hours from January to September 2011, up 32% compared to 2000, but down 6.7% since January 1st and 25.2% down compared to a year ago.

Worst congestion;

A13 Den Haag - Rotterdam
A4-A10 Badhoevedorp - Coen Tunnel & S110
A16-A20 Rotterdam Bypass

Biggest droppers:

* A1 Diemen - Hoevelaken -13.9%
* A6 Almere - Diemen -33.1%
* A6 Diemen - Almere -50.6%
* A2 Oudenrijn - Deil -56.4%
* A12 Oudenrijn - Gouwe -68.4%

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; November 22nd, 2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 04:06 PM   #6343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Annoyingly, it rather does matter a lot for 2x2 motorways. Our driving on motorways depends in no small part on the entrance ramps (exits don't matter in this context). When new cars come on the motorway, we give them space by going left.
While this is nice when possible or to help a slow ecomobile on the motorway. this shouldn't happen. My driving instructor used to shout at me if I did that 2 and a half years ago, saying do not do that!

Cars from the sliproad joining the motorway have to give way to everyone else, it's THEIR problem joining the motorway, not the cars who are already on the motorway.

Quote:
That means several slower moving vehicles from the right lane suddenly pass onto the left lane.
Most morons who do this can't seem to judge the speed of the cars behind them on the left lane, causing them to slam on their anchors. I'd have no problem with it if people wouldn't impede the left lane traffic, but they often do, this should be dealt with with extra high fines, as should all ''give way'' mistakes. The right of way is the most important pillar of road rules/traffic law imo.

Quote:
You might argue that much of this problem could be erased if passenger cars could speed up to 140km/h on the entrance ramps, but that means extending many of them because many are not currently suitable for such a feat.
That's the governments fault, encouraging slow crappy ecomobiles. I mean I can't believe people buy cars who don't even do 100 kph in 15 seconds yet go on the motorway with them, unsuitable cars for the job imho and ruining the driving experience for the faster cars, such cars belong in the city, what they're designed to do in the first place. Snelwegen are for quicker and more refined cars, bigger hatchbacks, saloons, coupe's, etc. Touring cars, not city cars. ( obviously, I'd like this for personal reasons, doesn't mean it should be this way, I also think the road is for everyone, which is more important imo, there wouldn't be such a problem though if the roads had more capacity but, I wouldn't mind seeing people not hold up other people so much)
Quote:
That's a horrible idea. Trucks are responsible for enough deadly accidents as it is.
It's safe enough as it is imho. But, yeah I'd prefer not to see trucks on motorways, however, this is realistically not possible, unless a new network of ''supernselwegen'' appears only for cars. But I don't think the government can do that (ban the trucks) imho, none of their business.

Quote:
What you need to do is: remove the trucks. Freight should be transported by railway or waterway. The province of Zeeland had an interesting brainwave a few years ago when it was suggested to construct a cheap "conveyor belt" in the median of the A58 between the seaports of Vlissingen and Moerdijk. The conveyor belt would move shipping containers at a speed of up to 50km/h. The idea was to remove a huge amount of trucks off the road, thereby effectively canceling all congestion in the area. The idea never materialized, but frankly I don't understand why. It's ideal. We need to get the slow, heavy, dangerous trucks off the road. Especially because there are so many of them. They cause jams. And they wear out the road surface much quicker than do passenger cars. Get 'm out.
Truck: A to B, anywhere anytime.
Rail and Water: A via C via D to B.

Rail and water almost never brings goods from the place they are from to the place they need to be directly. You are limited to stations and ports. It is the same reason why anywhere but in the highest density places, public transport is absolute shite compared to private transport like Cars, Mopeds and (push)Bikes.

Besides, the government is earning a lot on the fuel duty of trucks. While having to invest extra in rail. Road transport is cheaper. I'd (personally) love to see trucks off the road for my own reasons but I don't see it ever happening nor do I think it's a good idea, not do I think the government should decide how free people in a free country move around, people and businesses should make their own choices and not listen to nanny state saying this and that is bad...



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Traffic congestion down 30%

Traffic congestion is down by 30 percent, according to Rijkswaterstaat. The widening of motorways and additional shoulder running have significantly improved traffic flow. Congestion was reduced by 30 percent from July to half November, compared to 2010, when it was also down compared to 2009. Congestion is at its lowest level in 8 years, while traffic volumes increased by 2.2 percent at the same time.

Some figures:

Traffic volumes increased by 2.2% in Q3 2011. Vehicle lost hours declined by 25.2%. Traffic congestion was down by 33.6% in Q3.

Highest congestion growth was on A9 between Haarlem and Alkmaar, due to roadworks. Lost vehicle hours increased by 94 000 hours. At the same time, the biggest winner is A12 between Utrecht and Gouda, where the single additional lane caused a reduction of 859 000 lost vehicle hours.

64.5 billion vehicle kilometers from January to September 2011. An increase of 16% compared to the year 2000.

58 million lost hours from January to September 2011, up 32% compared to 2000, but down 6.7% since January 1st and 25.2% down compared to a year ago.

Worst congestion;

A13 Den Haag - Rotterdam
A4-A10 Badhoevedorp - Coen Tunnel & S110
A16-A20 Rotterdam Bypass

Biggest droppers:

* A1 Diemen - Hoevelaken -13.9%
* A6 Almere - Diemen -33.1%
* A6 Diemen - Almere -50.6%
* A2 Oudenrijn - Deil -56.4%
* A12 Oudenrijn - Gouwe -68.4%
Nice.

I live in the crappiest area though for traffic ( The A16 A20 bypass) and those are also the roads I mostly use to get to customers .

I hope the A16-A13 connection comes asap, the missing A4 link should hurry up too.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 06:26 PM   #6344
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Yeah, the A13-A16 should really come. In case you didn't know (I'm guessing you already do), the A4 will be opened for traffic in 2015. Do you know if there are any real plans for the Algerabrug (N210)? That's an incredible bottleneck, and when there's an accident, you have to drive around dozens of kilometers... Any plans for a A/N38 crossing the river from Ridderkerk towards Krimpen a/d IJssel maybe?
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 06:41 PM   #6345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Yeah, the A13-A16 should really come. In case you didn't know (I'm guessing you already do), the A4 will be opened for traffic in 2015. Do you know if there are any real plans for the Algerabrug (N210)? That's an incredible bottleneck, and when there's an accident, you have to drive around dozens of kilometers... Any plans for a A/N38 crossing the river from Ridderkerk towards Krimpen a/d IJssel maybe?
Wild speculations, but no actual plans
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Old November 25th, 2011, 12:59 AM   #6346
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Fines will be raised from 1-1-'12 on:
Parking on a place for the disabled: from 180 to 340 euro
Holding a cellphone in your hand while driving: from 180 to 220 euro
Driving through a red light: from 180 to 220 euro
Honking unnecessarily: from 180 to 350 euro
Driving on a lane closed by an electronic sign with a red cross: from 180 to 220 euro
Not giving way to pedestrians on a zebra-crossing: from 180 to 340 euro
Not using your seatbelt: from 100 to 120 euro
Driving over a displacement field: from 180 to 220 euro
Driving with a leaking exhaust: from 200 to 240 euro
Driving while your windscreen isn't at least 55% clean: from 180 to 220 euro

Last edited by aswnl; November 25th, 2011 at 10:16 AM.
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Old November 25th, 2011, 01:24 AM   #6347
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Driving over a displacement field: from 180 to 220 euro
What does this mean?
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Old November 25th, 2011, 01:33 AM   #6348
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Dashed part of the roadsurface where you are not allowed to drive, e.g. when a carriageway narrows from 3 to 2 lanes.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ll=...,211.38,,1,3.9
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Old November 25th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #6349
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We normally call them painted gores in the States. Are there any penalty points for these offenses?
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Old November 25th, 2011, 06:41 PM   #6350
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Only beginner drivers can get points on their licenses, people who have had their drivers license for over 5 years, don't get points anymore
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Old November 26th, 2011, 04:57 PM   #6351
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Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Sorry, but if that's the real reason: that's bullcrap (not meant for you ) And that's still no reason why the A2 is 100 (Near Maarssen it's because of environmental/sound issues), Between Maarssen and interchange Holendrecht there are 4 exits (Breukelen, rest area, Vinkeveen, Abcoude) in 20 km. That's 1 approx. every 5 km. (that's above average btw) You could easily drive 160 there outside rushhour...
Speed limit is not about what you can or cannot do. It's about what we all have decided is the safest speed in general. Of course there are situations when one can easily go 140. But what would be the consequence of such an approach? Different speeds limits everywhere, everytime.

I agree that 100kmh is bullcrap, though. It should be in line with the normal limit, not lower.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 05:01 PM   #6352
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Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
Fines will be raised from 1-1-'12 on:
Parking on a place for the disabled: from 180 to 340 euro
Holding a cellphone in your hand while driving: from 180 to 220 euro
Driving through a red light: from 180 to 220 euro
Honking unnecessarily: from 180 to 350 euro
Driving on a lane closed by an electronic sign with a red cross: from 180 to 220 euro
Not giving way to pedestrians on a zebra-crossing: from 180 to 340 euro
Not using your seatbelt: from 100 to 120 euro
Driving over a displacement field: from 180 to 220 euro
Driving with a leaking exhaust: from 200 to 240 euro
Driving while your windscreen isn't at least 55% clean: from 180 to 220 euro
Insane numbers. Not yielding on a zebra = 340 euros? I never heard of anyone being fined for that. I bet the chance that anyone will get such a fine now is extrmely low..... In Dutch we call this 'symbol politics'.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #6353
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Only beginner drivers can get points on their licenses, people who have had their drivers license for over 5 years, don't get points anymore
By "getting points" you mean they have a penalty?

I'm making a comparison with the Italian system, where you start with 20 points and for certain fines points are taken away from you, while for every year without mistakes you get +2 points, up to a max of 30.

Young drivers (less than 3 years) have doubled penalties.

I never understood why an "older" driver should be fined less than a younger one. In fact, I think an experienced driver is more aware of what he's doing, and if he commits a mistake he has a higher responsibility for not taking care!
I think it's the standard "I'm old so I'm right" crap.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 05:20 PM   #6354
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Youths (18 - 25) are overrepresented in traffic fatality statistics. So are people who are over 65.
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Old November 26th, 2011, 05:34 PM   #6355
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That's a valid point. I still think a part of the younger's mistakes are due to poor driving school standards. I mean, here in Italy no driver has ever been instructed on how to merge and drive on a highway, or overtake another car, or drive on icy roads. Just class theory.

Damn, my sister is 19, has a licence, she drives better than the average driver, and still I wouldn't give her a license
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Old November 26th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #6356
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Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts View Post
Speed limit is not about what you can or cannot do. It's about what we all have decided is the safest speed in general. Of course there are situations when one can easily go 140. But what would be the consequence of such an approach? Different speeds limits everywhere, everytime.

I agree that 100kmh is bullcrap, though. It should be in line with the normal limit, not lower.
We already have 130, 120 100 and 80. The speed limits are already different everywhere....
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Old November 28th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #6357
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130 km/h becomes the default speed limit

Starting 1 september 2012, 130 km/h will become the default speed limit on Dutch motorways. The 130 km/h trials showed no significant impact on traffic safety or the environment. Almost equally important is that four out of five 80 km/h zones will disappear. Air quality improved enough to reinstate the 100 km/h speed limits. Only the 80 km/h zone at A20 Rotterdam will remain, awaiting further studies. The intention though, is to increase the limit to 100 km/h here too.

Furthermore, most 100 km/h zones in the Randstad metropolitan area will disappear on intercity motorways. There will be 100 - 130 km/h variable speed limits, not only during the night, but if possible also during the day if traffic allows.

Only a small number of motorways will retain their 120 km/h limit, mostly because they've been designed in more recent years and do not allow for a safe 130 km/h limit.

map:


green: 130 km/h
red: 100 km/h
orange: 120 km/h
blue: variable 100 / 120 - 130 km/h.
yellow: pending 130 km/h*

* based on more extensive surveying because they run near natura-2000 areas. Intention to make them all 130 km/h.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #6358
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Only beginner drivers can get points on their licenses, people who have had their drivers license for over 5 years, don't get points anymore
Stupid system. Rich drivers can easily don't follow the driving rules... If you have enough in your pocket you don't have to obey the law.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 08:13 PM   #6359
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What do you mean? There is no corruption in this country, so also rich people get their points en lose their driving license. A lot of money can't save them.

Last edited by Gereke; November 28th, 2011 at 09:15 PM.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #6360
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He means that when you have your license for over 5 years, you just can drive as fast as you can because you have enough money.

@Chris: Good news
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