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Old December 4th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #6381
ChrisZwolle
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Funny, but rather useless survey. Which is the best accessible place in the Netherlands? A study found out it's the town of Eemnes, located north of Utrecht. The average travel times by car and public transport to other municipalities in the Netherlands is the shortest from Eemnes. These figures are not representative for regular everyday travel.

Car travel times:


Public transport travel times:


By province:
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Old December 4th, 2011, 04:07 PM   #6382
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Why isn't there info on public transport on Texel? There are numerous bus lines there, but no info... I have no idea if there are bus lines on other islands btw.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 11:54 PM   #6383
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There are bus lines on all the islands (some systems more advanced then others). I guess the ferry does not count as public transport, which is kinda weird. The ferry terminal in Harlingen even has its own train station.

I was kinda amazed PT is so much slower, I guess it's because before and after transport.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 07:49 AM   #6384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLoki View Post
I was kinda amazed PT is so much slower, I guess it's because before and after transport.
Dutch cities are generally small and, despite hateful and bigoted anti-car policies (like busluizen, or Zone 30), they are still fairly easy to access and congestion in cities isn't really that bad.

Also, while station-to-station travel is usually faster by rail, just a small fraction of people are actually going from/to a place that is exactly in front of a station.

Then, throw in any 1000m walk, or the need to take a bus + walk, and you killed most time advantages of train.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 10:14 AM   #6385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLoki View Post
I was kinda amazed PT is so much slower, I guess it's because before and after transport.
Public transport takes twice as much time as 90% of the trips taken by car. These figures however, are not everyday travel (they compare the average of one province to the average of all other provinces), which includes more long distance trips, where the public transport - car difference is usually not as big as relatively short trips up to some 50 kilometers.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 02:22 PM   #6386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Funny, but rather useless survey. Which is the best accessible place in the Netherlands? A study found out it's the town of Eemnes, located north of Utrecht. The average travel times by car and public transport to other municipalities in the Netherlands is the shortest from Eemnes. These figures are not representative for regular everyday travel.

Car travel times:


Public transport travel times:


By province:
What a weird methodology was used to create those graphs? I wonder about calculations time as well. Based on workdays or weekends? During rush hours or not?
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Old December 5th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #6387
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It's all "average". That's why the whole study is rather useless.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 02:36 PM   #6388
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OK. So perfect for popular newspaper
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Been in: A, B, BIH, BR, C, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GE, GBR, H, HR, I, L, LT, MC, MEX, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, RD, RSM, S, SK, SLO, SRB, TR, UA, USA, V
Driven in: A, B, BIH, BR, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GBR, H, HR, I, L, MC, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, SK, SRB, TR, USA
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Old December 5th, 2011, 03:14 PM   #6389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLoki View Post
I was kinda amazed PT is so much slower, I guess it's because before and after transport.
Well, apart from walking to the station or bus stop, some relatively short journeys will involve waiting somewhere in the middle.

Where I live in the UK, the train timetable was changed a few years ago so that the large city 15 km away involved changing at the next station and waiting, so a trip that used to be 18 minutes became 43 or 47

It was changed back a year or so later.

I would imagine that this study is mostly about cities and towns though, rather than every village.

Even then, it must vary a lot depending on the exact trip involved. If I wanted to travel the 100 km to the centre of London, the train would usually be faster than the car, but on the other hand Heathrow Airport would take twice as long by public transport as by car.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #6390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's all "average". That's why the whole study is rather useless.
Someone good at image manipulation programs could get about the same result in a few minutes by mixing a map of the country with an archery target.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #6391
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I think it's strange that places with à railroad station and a intercity service (like Groningen, Middelburg and Maastricht) have the same time as places such as Stadskanaal, Schouwen-duiveland and Valkenburg.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 11:15 AM   #6392
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In the Netherlands where there are no really large distances (since the country itself is small), high-speed rail service can not gain big advances on cars. Actually all the advances are lost by waiting for the train (even a 20 min frequency can cause a huge delay if your trip is only one hour or less!) and by accessing the train station and accessing your target from the train station (considering you're not exactly travelling from a train station to another one).
So I think it is quite normal that for interregional journeys public transport is slower than car for most travellers. People that have both starting and target point near to a train station and can use a fast and frequent service may have a PT that is faster than taking a car but it is a minority of travellers for sure. (However they're a very important part of travellers since by taking a train they make the most loaded motorways less congested!).

After all in such a small area public transport can only gain real importance in directions where roads are heavily congested and can be widened only by extreme high costs. It is typical not intercity or interregional transport but urban and suburban one. Randstad would become a terrible place to live without an effective public transport but most of Dutch intercity and interregional public transport services are quite for social purposes: they serve people that can not take a car because of their young age, bad health or bad financial situation (however considering traffic density even these people may need a rather dense and frequent service in some directions).
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Old December 7th, 2011, 11:55 AM   #6393
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Southern Limburg beltway

The Council of State annulled a provincial road plan for the 26 kilometers expressway around the city of Heerlen and surrounding region. In a rare annulment, the council of state said the province did not had sufficient argumentation about air quality concerns. The province said the increase in traffic will be offset by cleaner engines. While this may be true, apparently they did not quantify this enough (i.e. air quality study). There were 125 appeals against the plan, though most of them were dismissed.

It is yet not known if the provincial road plan can be repaired and what the delay will be.

The dashed orange line indicates the preferred alternative.


Most of the alignment already exist as two-lane roads, but the network is not very integrated and design standards vary a lot. Some sections are residential street-like, while others are already motorway-like.

The region is a small and rather poorly integrated metropolitan area of about 200.000 people in 4 municipalities, out of which Heerlen is the largest. The west side of Heerlen is well-served by the A79 motorway and the N281 city expressway. The eastern side of Heerlen is served by a two-lane, roundabout-ridden road.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; December 7th, 2011 at 12:01 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #6394
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Not good!

As for the travel time maps, a new series, called Netherlands from above, premiered last night. On their website you can calculate how far you can travel from any post code in NL within a certain # of minutes (car and PT).

I'm not sure how accurate it is, because one would think intercity stations and freeways would benefit. It is strange that for me Rotterdam is not reachable within 60 mins (it is with high speed trains), and for instance Den Bosch I can easily reach within 1h by car, but not according to this map.

Website
Watch the firs episode. It features lots of aerial highway shots.

From my house within an hour:

PT - Car
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Old December 7th, 2011, 12:27 PM   #6395
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Minister Schultz has decided in favour of the Blankenburgertunnel near Rotterdam.
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1038/Rotterda...-komt-er.dhtml
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Old December 7th, 2011, 12:32 PM   #6396
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Tunnels for Rotterdam

Minister Schultz will announce today she chose the A24 Blankenburg Tunnel as the new western fixed link in the Port of Rotterdam area. She will also announce the A13-A16 link will be constructed with a 2 kilometer land tunnel. Meanwhile, A4 construction will commence at full speed next year with another 2 kilometer land tunnel.

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Old December 7th, 2011, 03:51 PM   #6397
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Today's announced projects:

A24 Blankenburg Motorway

* 2x3 lanes
* Cost: € 1.5 billion
* € 300 million to be financed via tolls
* toll: about € 2 for cars and € 6 for trucks
* submerged tunnel
* two half-stacks (A15 & A20)
* widening of A20 to 2x3 lanes east of A24
* opening: before 2020

The yellow variant:


A13-A16 Rotterdam Bypass

* 2x2 lanes, expandable to 2x3 lanes.
* Cost: € 990 million
* € 245 million to be financed via tolls
* tolls: about € 1 - 1,50 for cars and € 2 - 3 for trucks.
* 1.5 kilometer land tunnel
* Aquaduct underneat the Rotte River
* A16 will cross the Terbregseplein Interchange at level 4.
* opening: around 2020



A4 Den Haag Thruway

* upgrade A4 to local-express setup
* upgrade N211 with 3 interchanges
* upgrade N14 with 2 interchanges
* upgrade Beatrixlaan with 2 interchanges
* opening around 2020
* cost: € 576 million
* no tolls


Last edited by ChrisZwolle; December 7th, 2011 at 08:06 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 04:34 PM   #6398
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I would have chosen to make A13/A20 part toll and not this new road so that more people will use it .
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Old December 7th, 2011, 04:48 PM   #6399
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The new road (A13-A16) is smaller then the old one (A20-A13), but there is space for a third lane on the A13-A16. And don't forget the people from the Westland towards Gouda, they'll have to pay toll because of a road they will never use. Just keep the toll at the A13-A16.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 05:39 PM   #6400
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Yes but knowing us dutch I don't think that the new a13/a16 will have much use if you have to pay toll for it and the alternative isn't much slower and free . Becasue if it works both roads might have less cognestion.
But make atleast the a13 by overschie toll, so that more people will choose to take the a13/a16 or a4 depending from where they are travelling
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