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Old February 27th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #6741
Koesj
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Taking bikes on trains is NOT going to work during peak hours. We've got enough opportunities for people to transport their bike off-peak. Just use a decent one for going around your neighborhood and a banger for around work if you've got a trainride inbetween.

I used to bike 5kms to school one way even when I was 8 years old btw. Take your lunch at school and if the weather is really shitty you might get lucky and have another kid's mom collect you. That's just how it goes around the countryside with two working parents.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #6742
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[QUOTE=Surel;88941721
15 km biking in the netherlands in a city should not take you more then 40 minutes. In most of the cities you dont bike more then 10 kms from the place where you live to your work, school etc.[/quote]

I don't think that holds for people past their college education. Especially around the Randstad, it is very common to live in a city and work somewhere else. Then, if the workplace or residence is near a train station, commuting with transit might work. But if both are not in close proximity of a station, unless you want to spend 2 extra hours per day, driving is always quicker.

Quote:
Bike is simply the best transportation choice in any dutch city, when you dont need to transport something else then just yourself and when you are not a one time visitor.
What is "best"? Cheaper? Probably, because bikes don't pay road taxes to help pay for the bike paths (though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year). Faster? Not really beyond 3-4km.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 11:04 PM   #6743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year
How do you want to controll that, just look at the amound of left bikes, the amound of stolen bikes, secondhand bikes. I would be scared about the bureaucratic consequences.. It's simply impossible to do this, there are more bikes then people in the netherlands! I'm a student and I have 3 bikes alone, are you going to expect me to pay €150 to ride them, hell no!
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Old February 27th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #6744
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I have a question which is unrelated to the bicycles.
Recently, travel times are being shown more and more on these so-called BermDRIPs:


Will these eventually replace the normal DRIPs:


or will these stay?
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Old February 27th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #6745
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I hope those overhead ones stay! That is because you can easily miss a side lane VMPS.

For instance, they have one near Breuklen on A2. Impossible to read it daytime if you are travelling on any but the two rightmost lanes.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #6746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woutero View Post
[I]E

Here's an example of a random place in The Netherlands. It is in Sneek, a small town in the North:
1895:
[IMG]http://f.cl.ly/items/311V2F0r41112p0a1m25/397-Schaapmarktplein.jpg[IMG]

1969:
[IMG]http://www.sneekernieuwsblad.nl/files/2011/11/366-Schaapmarktplein-522x391.jpg[IMG]

Current (Streetview) (on a monday morning when the shops are closed...):
[IMG]http://f.cl.ly/items/1m1w050A0S3N3Q1o303o/Schermafbeelding%202012-02-27%20om%2015.09.28.png[IMG]
I prefer the way it looked in '69 , perhaps I belong in the US not in Europe . Street looks boring and crap without cars.

I also hate all the street furniture, it looks ugly.

I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,6...319.83,,0,4.21
Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.

Ah well, if I ever get the chance to get to the US I will, I am really someone who loves the idea of living in an American suburb and seeing nice pickups and SUV's everywhere and a pool and a nice big garden with every home.

Then again I'm a car enthousiast, I love sitting on a terrace drinking a beer looking at all the Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Volvo's, etc .

Last edited by snowdog; February 28th, 2012 at 02:47 AM.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #6747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There should be a room reserved to bicycles in every train.
There mostly are special compartments for people who carry a bike, but it just doesn't work during rush hours. They're only allowed outside the rush hours and with an additional (I thought) 6 euros ticket.

Folding bikes don't have these restrictions, though.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #6748
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Sorry, but this seems very unlikely to me. Children and students leaving at 7 a.m. in the morning and returning home at 3 p.m. because they cycle 40km every day even with rain, snow, cold even if there PT avaliable? Maybe within 5km but 20 seems exagerate. And are parents happy to leave their 10 yo children to cycle alone from city to city?
I'm going to have to confess I was one of those kids. I grew up in Zeeland. The only high schools were in the two larger towns of the peninsula, so all the kids from the small villages would have to cycle to school. In a sparsely populated province like Zeeland, public transport is virtually non-existent.

I was lucky, my one-way trip totaled to just 7km. But some kids did have to cycle 15 or 20km one-way. Needless to say, they all bought scooters the second they turned 16 (in Holland you start high school at age 12).


(click for a larger version)

On the map: the dots represent the biggest high schools and the lines represent the major cycling routes (although there are short cuts, of course). People do tend to choose their kid's high school by proximity, since the quality of education is roughly the same everywhere.

The cycling routes typically look like this.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #6749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,6...319.83,,0,4.21
Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.
It just look more chaotic and polluted and noisy, to me
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Old February 28th, 2012, 03:05 PM   #6750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
I prefer the way it looked in '69 , perhaps I belong in the US not in Europe . Street looks boring and crap without cars.

I also hate all the street furniture, it looks ugly.

I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,6...319.83,,0,4.21
Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.

Ah well, if I ever get the chance to get to the US I will, I am really someone who loves the idea of living in an American suburb and seeing nice pickups and SUV's everywhere and a pool and a nice big garden with every home.

Then again I'm a car enthousiast, I love sitting on a terrace drinking a beer looking at all the Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Volvo's, etc .
And getting belly every day bigger and bigger...

I am fan of removing cars from city centers. I do enjoy driving vehicles but the place for its should be in underground parking or far away from city center. Awesome it's happening here in Europe.
Car cannot be used as poverty factor as quite common in 2nd world's countries (like in eastern countries, Africa, etc).
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Old February 28th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #6751
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What is "best"? Cheaper? Probably, because bikes don't pay road taxes to help pay for the bike paths (though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year). Faster? Not really beyond 3-4km.
As probably some of you (expats in the Netherlands) realized that "the best" for Dutch people always mean goedkoopste so cheap indeed
Don't even try to discuss with Dutch. "Going Dutch" is also known. But, what we can say about the country, where everyone is saving money
Bike = saving on fuel, on roadtax, on tires, on maintenance but not on paracetamol
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Driven in: A, B, BIH, BR, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GBR, H, HR, I, L, MC, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, SK, SRB, TR, USA
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Old February 28th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #6752
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A74 Venlo

The A74-A61 link near Venlo will open to traffic on Wednesday, April 4th, 2012. Both Dutch minister Schultz and German minister Ramsauer are scheduled to open the new motorway link between the Netherlands and Germany. Rijkswaterstaat cannot confirm, but Strassen.NRW says the opening will take place at 12.00 hours. After decades of planning, the link will finally open to traffic.

The Dutch part of the motorway was entirely completed before the winter. The German part is mostly finished, but the final layer of asphalt will still have to be poured, they have another month for this. Road markings on the German side may be temporary unless higher temperatures occur in March.

Planned since the 1970's, official government planning for the link began in 1995, when a study was published considering alternatives. Alternatives both east and south of Venlo were considered, ultimately a southern link was chosen because of the lower impact on nature. The new A73 motorway from Venlo to Roermond opened in 2007, and the process accelerated in that year, with a record of decision being published in 2010. Construction began almost immediately and was finished within a single year on the Dutch side. The A73 was constructed with an A74 interchange in mind, so the works were relatively easy.

The new motorway opens in time for the Floriade 2012 in Venlo, a large gardening and flower exhibition, which both the Dutch and Germans love. It is expected 2 million people will visit the exhibition.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #6753
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That's great info!
Any reason, politic reason occurred in 70's that the motorway wasn't build that time?
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Driven in: A, B, BIH, BR, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GBR, H, HR, I, L, MC, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, SK, SRB, TR, USA
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Old February 28th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #6754
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I don't think so. It wasn't a very high priority in the 1970's. The Germans mainly built A61 in the 1970's, but the Dutch A73 between Nijmegen and Venlo wasn't completed until 1996. In those days, the priority for the Dutch was east-west traffic (A67 - A40).

It was probably thought in the 1970's that this link would've been constructed in the mid- to late 1980's, when the last gaps of German A61 were filled. However, the anti-car politics of the 1980's and 1990's shelved nearly all projects, especially in the periphery of the Netherlands. Amongst them was A73, but also A50, A59 and even A2 between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven. Projects didn't gain ground until the early 2000's, when it became quite clear these links were simply necessary. The 2005 - 2012 period saw quite some new motorway construction in this part of the Netherlands. A50 and A59 were completed, A73 was constructed and A2 around Eindhoven was completely rebuilt.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #6755
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A20 in Rotterdam, 1975.


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Old February 28th, 2012, 06:38 PM   #6756
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Not much has changed in the last 37 years (except the amount of traffic).
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Old February 28th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #6757
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- the light reflectors beneath the signs are gone
- anchored poles with a line of mercury lights were substituted
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #6758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mappero View Post
And getting belly every day bigger and bigger...

I am fan of removing cars from city centers. I do enjoy driving vehicles but the place for its should be in underground parking or far away from city center. Awesome it's happening here in Europe.
Car cannot be used as poverty factor as quite common in 2nd world's countries (like in eastern countries, Africa, etc).
I'd love my belly to get bigger, gaining weight is hard :p. Falling off is easy, simply sleep a bit longer, do stuff that take your mind of food ( when working you forget you're hungry) and be active for about 30 mins per day. In my case if I don't watch how much I eat I lose 1 kg per week.

I disagree, I love driving around Rotterdam on a saturday or friday night with a couple of mates (or Warsaw if the traffic isn't a complete gridlock ). Or being able to stop in front of the shop you need to be.

Towns without cars are simply boring, too silent, no noise on the streets, many many Dutch towns suffer from this. Abroad the problem is far less and streets are interesting. It's why I like the standweg in Scheveningen or the Meent or the Coolsingel or the Nieuwe Binnenweg in Rotterdam but absolutely hate the tripe like in Amsterdam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It just look more chaotic and polluted and noisy, to me
Chaotic is exactly how town centers should be imho. Anything else is boring/dead.
and pollution? Meh people should go see places like Singapore or Beijing or so before whining about our clean air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A20 in Rotterdam, 1975.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1ExD8.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/y5b4P.jpg[IMG]
Wow, they only made it worse in all that time instead of improving it ( by adding a ****ed up speed limit):

Last edited by snowdog; February 28th, 2012 at 08:10 PM.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 01:17 AM   #6759
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Hey guys.I really like Dutch roads and highways but for my it's realy intresting that kind of road were going on sea and in another side lake.I know Netherlands build that A7 road on the sea or something like that? off topic: I am really interesting about "polders" .Still dutch building that polders? Can you guys tell me more about "Land Reclamation" .
Thanks
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Old February 29th, 2012, 01:25 AM   #6760
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The environwackos would have never allowed this country to exist if they existed in XVII Century. Mind you, they are so annoying they transformer 15% of a polder created in the 1950s into a "bird reservation", as if migratory birds stopped there before!!!! (it was all underwater).

the roads were built over dykes constructed to isolate bodies of water and allow them to be either drained (Thus converted into polders) or used as resevoirs for water level management. That is the case of N302, A7 and N59 for instance. However, there are also many other secondary roads built over dykes. Most roads in the lowlands areas are indeed dykes.
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