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Old March 9th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #6781
ChrisZwolle
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The forecasted average daily traffic is 50.000 - 65.000 vehicles per day, depending on the economic scenario. This included the previous estimate of € 300 million tolls. Traffic volumes will be higher now the tolls will likely be lower, or maybe entirely toll free.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #6782
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Car park and street parking fees rise sharply

Once again, anti-car measures backfires...

Quote:
City and shopping centre parking fees have gone up so much they are driving shoppers away, according to the retail sector's annual survey of parking charges.

In some cases, hourly charges have gone up 50% since 2009, Detailhandel Nederland says. The organisation visited 75 garages in 24 cities and compared on-street parking charges.

The biggest car park rise - 50% - was booked by the Torenlaan car park in Assen. In Nijmegen, the cost of parking on the street has risen from €1.70 an hour at the end of 2010 to €3.35, the organisation said.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 03:28 AM   #6783
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Once again, anti-car measures backfires...



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I wouldnt call these anti car measures . I dont think that the owner of the parking lot increases the price by 100 % in order to get rid of the cars. He certainly wants to have the parking full of cars and just collect double. (note it is 100 %, not 50 % as the article tries to say)

If the owner of the parking places and shops are different then there are is just conflict of interests. If the price of parking increase by 100 % and the number of parked cars decrease by 25 % the owner of the parking place still makes 50 % more revenue. The owner of the shopping mall, however, would most probably make around 25 % less revenue...

The shopping mall would be better off if he subsidized the owner of the parking place, because such costs would be lower then the loss on revenue.

Thus it is logical that shopping malls should build underground parkplaces etc.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #6784
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In the Netherlands, must parking prices for central locations are decided by city authorities. Otherwise I'd agree with your argument.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #6785
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In the Netherlands, must parking prices for central locations are decided by city authorities. Otherwise I'd agree with your argument.
Well, then it means only, that there are many parking places in the ownership of the cities, or the city has direct income from parking owners, or the lobby of parking places owners is stronger then the lobby of retailers.

I dont know what are the detailed legal requirements, but as I already said, the retailers could subsidize the parking costs either to their clients or to the parking places owners to prevent their revenues from decreasing.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 01:16 AM   #6786
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The costs of most parkingplaces are low, because they do exist for decades. The municipalities just want to rip off the drivers/shoppers in their everlasting hunger for more and more money. So they can provide some (mostly quite useless) political social subsidizing-projects with cash...
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Old March 11th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #6787
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Most larger cities make huge profits on parking fees. It's not for covering the cost, it's just a cash cow. It's the typical Dutch disease to complain about all car traffic into city centers but at the same time prohibit the construction of alternatives like motorway malls. My guess is they like the cash better than they don't like the cars.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #6788
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New flyover in Utrecht City, here

Dutch cities have very little grade-separation outside the motorways that encircle them, compared to other European cities.

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Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
Fly over 24 Oktoberplein:













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Old March 11th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #6789
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@ChrisZwolle

Nonsense argument. The costs for the cities to build and maintain roads (nearly 3 billion euro each year) are higher than the benefits in additional incomes from parking (500 million euro) for the cities itself.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #6790
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I don't see your point. I was talking about the cost of parking and the fact the revenue from parking fees is much bigger than the cost in some larger cities, not the entire road budget of the Netherlands. That's comparing apples and oranges.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #6791
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A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord

Click here for all my pics including locations

Lagemetenweg looking north:


Lagemetenweg looking south with zoom


Works on the pipe line near a farm next to the A4. The pipe line is being diverted: this pipe line used to cross the A4 diagonally. It looks like the pipe line will be extended west going underneath the N259. Those works will probably be done when the A4 is opened for traffic (less nuisance for (through) traffic)


exit Halsteren: The location where another lane will be built for traffic towards Tholen.


It looks like they're building a roundabout (which was planned) but with a free lane from Tholen --> Rotterdam that wont have to use the roundabout. Which is weird, because there weren't plans for that


From exit Halsteren: A4 looking northbound


From de Dassenberg looking south. The same motorcrosser as last time was racing here again


From the slope for the cyclist-viaduct over the A4 near Klutsdorp: looking north


Looking southbound now. The route of the cyclist bridge can be seen here:


Slope for the cyclist-bridge. So you get an idea of the height: the poles you see are about 1,5 meters high. That's why I estimate the slope at just over 4 meters.


From the N259: future lanes towards Bergen Op Zoom (southbound)


Same location: parallel road (left) and slope cyclist-bridge (middle):


The works are also starting on the other side of the N259, where they are officially not allowed to build yet. The Council of State still has to decide if the building is allowed to proceed: the council of state is already 6 months too late with this decision and recently news came out that it will take another 6 weeks


Nuijten farm: there were some piles of sand laying here, I thought they had already shown the path the A4 will take, but that turned out not to be the case.


This house at the Drielindekensweg was demolished. I don't know when this happened.
Here is the old situation on Streetview


At the drielindekensdijk trees were cleared, this location is close to Steenbergen, where North-Brabant's first aqueduct will be constructed. I didn't go to the aqueduct though.






These 2 pics are not mine, but from Jackbauer1350 (Dutch road forum) who came by to check the progress with me. But he went further north: 2 pics from the exit Dinteloord (current end of A29)

[img]http://i41.************/ozdp0.jpg[/img]
The N259 (which will loose it's number when the A4 is built) will goo over the A4 here:
[img]http://i44.************/15xk0n9.jpg[/img]
Looking on the A4 southbound. Works are going on here untill the road crosses the N259 just north of Steenbergen (approx 3,5 kilometers)
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Old March 11th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #6792
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Will this motorway called A4, instead of A29? Where will the number change?
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Old March 11th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #6793
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I think the A29 will disappear enteeirely and will get the number A4. The A15 near Rotterdam will get the number A4 alongside the A15, in that way, the A4 will be numbered consistently from Amsterdam to Antwerp (B) (from 2015 when the A4 Midden-Delfland is opened). But I'm not sure what will happen with the number. I don't think anyone is sure....

EDIT: This is what I mean:

Last edited by keokiracer; March 11th, 2012 at 08:18 PM. Reason: picture added
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Old March 11th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #6794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Most larger cities make huge profits on parking fees. It's not for covering the cost, it's just a cash cow. It's the typical Dutch disease to complain about all car traffic into city centers but at the same time prohibit the construction of alternatives like motorway malls. My guess is they like the cash better than they don't like the cars.
Also the 'huge' profits are nonsense. In case of Amsterdam. Yes, if you are looking at parking places only. Looking at the 2nd city Rotterdam. Income minus costs = 5,3 milion profit. That is more normal for a city in the Netherlands, and low considering other car costs for the city of Rotterdam. Traffic management in Rotterdam costs 13,6 milion euro in 2011 for example, with no substational income for it.

Building motorway malls isn't our solution. Especially because our economy is shifting more and more to the cities.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 04:06 AM   #6795
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Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
The costs of most parkingplaces are low, because they do exist for decades. The municipalities just want to rip off the drivers/shoppers in their everlasting hunger for more and more money. So they can provide some (mostly quite useless) political social subsidizing-projects with cash...
By parking costs I did not mean the costs of parking places construction. I meant the costs that person parking a car has to pay to be allowed to park there. To put it better, the price of a parking ticket.

If the whole argument of retailers is that parking is too costly and they are losing clients = money. They should subsidize the price of parking to their clients = the costs of parking for the clients = the parking owners revenues.

Last edited by Surel; March 12th, 2012 at 04:15 AM.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #6796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
(from 2015 when the A4 Midden-Delfland is opened)
Do you know the date for the start of the construction of this road? Has it even started yet?
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Old March 12th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #6797
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Preparatory works have commenced in 2011, but full-scale construction is anticipated to begin in the summer of 2012.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #6798
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It has started. Trees have been cut (near interchange Ketheplein). Exit Schiedam-Noord has been closed due to works etc.

Click here for a press release from Rijkswaterstaat in Dutch and on the next page of that thread there are some pics.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #6799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord
(...)
The works are also starting on the other side of the N259, where they are officially not allowed to build yet. The Council of State still has to decide if the building is allowed to proceed: the council of state is already 6 months too late with this decision and recently news came out that it will take another 6 weeks
(...)
Sorry for quoting myself, but the Council of State will decide next Wednesday. (it was on their site). I have no idea why BN De Stem (local news paper) said that it would take up to 6 weeks.

Fingers crossed!
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Old March 13th, 2012, 06:44 AM   #6800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
@ChrisZwolle

Nonsense argument. The costs for the cities to build and maintain roads (nearly 3 billion euro each year) are higher than the benefits in additional incomes from parking (500 million euro) for the cities itself.
Nonsense argument, the cost of building and maintaining roads is FAR LESS than they earn on road tax, fuel duty, VAT on fuel, BPM, etcetc...

Parking is only an additional source of income.

Plus, who would live in a city with no access by car , yeah perhaps some Amsterdammers, Green people ( Groenlinks and Animal party voters) and students, but that's about it.
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