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Old March 13th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #6801
Surel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Nonsense argument, the cost of building and maintaining roads is FAR LESS than they earn on road tax, fuel duty, VAT on fuel, BPM, etcetc...

Parking is only an additional source of income.

Plus, who would live in a city with no access by car , yeah perhaps some Amsterdammers, Green people ( Groenlinks and Animal party voters) and students, but that's about it.
What is the distribution of the tax incomes you mentioned between the municipalities and the government? :O.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #6802
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Kerensheide motorway interchange flyover progress. This image is looking north along A2. To the left is Belgium, to the right is the city of Geleen and towards Germany.

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Old March 13th, 2012, 02:02 PM   #6803
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Quote:
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A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord
Great pictures, thanks!

I have relatives and friends in Zeeland but I live in The Hague so this road has been a long time coming for me

It is, however, a bit of a shame to know that this 2x2 motorway will take all of 1 week to completely fill up with traffic to the point of nuisance. Especially considering most of it will be trucks between the seaports of Rotterdam and Antwerp. I really hate driving on a 2x2 motorway where the right lane is completely filled with trucks and everyone else is forced to drive 80 (or slower) in a huge jam on the left lane.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #6804
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The expected traffic volume on the new A4 is about 65.000 vehicles per day, which is indeed no picnic. I don't think they have a space reservation for 2x3 lanes.

The A4 will mainly relieve the A58 between Roosendaal and Bergen op Zoom. This section carries 85.000 vehicles per day and is among the busier Dutch 2x2 motorways, especially considering it's not near a major city or in an urban area, but rather a short-distance intercity motorway.

On the other hand I think the A29 may become problematic, especially the section across the Haringvliet Bridge. It currently carries a modest (by Dutch standards) 50.000 vehicles per day. However, it has multiple issues. First of all, it's a bascule bridge and opens rather frequently. It also malfunctions from time to time and the motorway is substandard, there are no shoulders. Not the perfect recipe to handle large amount of (truck) traffic, especially if traffic volumes exceed 75.000 vehicles per day here. I think a higher bridge is the only viable solution here, but it will come at a price.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #6805
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I think the urgency will soon be such that there's no way around a new bridge in that area. When this motorway opens, it will explode.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #6806
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@Slaghator Thanks! (about the pics )
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The expected traffic volume on the new A4 is about 65.000 vehicles per day, which is indeed no picnic. I don't think they have a space reservation for 2x3 lanes.
Sadly not, no

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The A4 will mainly relieve the A58 between Roosendaal and Bergen op Zoom. This section carries 85.000 vehicles per day and is among the busier Dutch 2x2 motorways, especially considering it's not near a major city or in an urban area, but rather a short-distance intercity motorway.
Sadly the forecasted numbers of traffic in 2020 aare about as high as they are now between Bergen Op Zoom and Roosendaal:
number of cars when A4 is completed in 2020:

Number of trucks when A4 is completed in 2020


Click here for current traffic volumes, next pic in line is the trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
On the other hand I think the A29 may become problematic, especially the section across the Haringvliet Bridge. It currently carries a modest (by Dutch standards) 50.000 vehicles per day. However, it has multiple issues. First of all, it's a bascule bridge and opens rather frequently. It also malfunctions from time to time and the motorway is substandard, there are no shoulders. Not the perfect recipe to handle large amount of (truck) traffic, especially if traffic volumes exceed 75.000 vehicles per day here. I think a higher bridge is the only viable solution here, but it will come at a price.
Indeed. And you should not forget the A4/A58 passing Bergen Op Zoom, as you can see in the pics above, 63.000 cars and 29.000 trucks will cause a lot of traffic jams on that narrow stretch. And don't forget the fact that from Rotterdam to Antwerpen you will have to merge to 1 lane! Streetview. No plans for this yet, sadly...
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Old March 13th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #6807
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Transportation and environment minister Schultz has formally approved the new spatial planning guidelines. This is the most official document concerning spatial policy, including road policy.

This is the ambition for 2040:

blue = at least 2x3
yellow = at least 2x4
red = widening 2x2 (N-roads) or new connections

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Old March 13th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #6808
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Quite disappointed: no N65 upgrade to A65
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Old March 13th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #6809
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This document does not exclude such a project, since it's neither a new connection, nor a widening to 2x2/2x3/2x4.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #6810
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Nice shot by Dutch austronaut André Kuipers from the Schiphol Airport area. The new A5 can be seen under construction on the left. The new A4 interchanges are also visible in the center. North is left (i.e. this photo is facing east).
image hosted on flickr

Schiphol Airport 12.3.2012. by André Kuipers, on Flickr
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Old March 13th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #6811
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N279 Den Bosch - Veghel

Route on GMaps

The N279 between Den Bosch and Veghel will be rebuilt as a 2x2 grade seperate road (except for the junctions with the highways A2 and A50: there was one scenario with interchanges here, but they were too expensive). Here's a simulation of the road:

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Old March 14th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #6812
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A4 Dinteloord - Bergen op Zoom

The Council of State has rejected all appeals against the record of decision to construct a new motorway around the town of Steenbergen. This means construction can go ahead. It is anticipated that construction will commence as fast as possible to open the new motorway in late 2013. Some construction had already commenced. The new A4 motorway will shorten the distance between Rotterdam and Antwerpen and relieve local roads and the A16/A58 of through traffic.

location:

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; March 14th, 2012 at 12:39 PM.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 01:01 PM   #6813
g.spinoza
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I lost count. How many pieces of motorway are U/C (or in advanced stage of planning) in the NL?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #6814
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There are a few new motorway alignments either under construction, or planned. These are;

* A2 Maastricht (2016) (U/C)
* A4 Delft - Schiedam (2015) (U/C)
* A4 Dinteloord - Halsteren (2013) (U/C)
* A5 Raasdorp - Amsterdam (2012) (U/C)
* A13/A16 Rotterdam bypass (2020) (planned)
* A15 Ressen - Zevenaar (2020) (planned)
* A24 Rozenburg - Maassluis (2020) (planned)
* A74 Venlo - German border (2012) (finished, opens 04-04-2012)

Furthermore, some widening projects are so large they can be considered to be completely new motorways, mainly due to realignments;

* A1 Diemen - Muiderberg (2016) (planned, realignment)
* A4 Leiden (2014) (U/C, partially finished)
* A9 Diemen - Holendrecht (2019) (planned, partial realignment)
* A9 Badhoevedorp (2015) (planned, realignment)

Furthermore there are some 20 or 30 major widening projects going on or planned before 2020, including several N-roads like N31, N35, N61, N62, N279, N340, N356, N381, etc.)

The Netherlands is finally moving ahead in recent years after decades of standstill (comparable to the late 1970's - early 2000's period in Italy).
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Old March 14th, 2012, 01:15 PM   #6815
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I see. May I ask how are you dealing with Nimbies?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 01:26 PM   #6816
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nimbies continue to appeal against projects and record of decisions. However, recent environmental impact statements and subsequent record of decisions have been very solid, it's been a long time since a record of decision was annulled in the Netherlands, the last maybe 5 years ago.

There are currently a number of factors that speed up highway construction.

First, there was a lot of money reserved in the 2000 - 2007 timespan that could not be spent because of problems with procedures. All that money is currently spent, hence the huge construction boom since 2007.

Second, they greatly improved the decision-making process. In most cases, the procedures were not the worst problem, but the political decision-making. The average decision making progress in the Netherlands until recently was 11 - 12 years (3 or more government cabinet periods), and some lasted significantly longer or were dormant for a long time. The decision-making progress has also improved because the rampant congestion went completely out of control, and politicians finally recognized the extreme traffic congestion had significant impact on economic growth and measures to curb automobile usage had only countereffects. Policy has changed from obstructing to facilitating road traffic and see it as a given fact, instead of something that needs to be curbed, at least on a national level. Municipalities and some provinces are often still in the older mindset.

Previously politicians were fairly sceptic about road improvement projects, because most of them carried out in the 1990's were very small in character and had only a very limited effect. Now they've recognized the Netherlands needs a corridor and network-wide approach instead of the older "3km at the time" approach which indeed had little effect. Newer road projects are much more solid and significantly reduced traffic congestion, often 20 - 30% annually in recent years, and up to 98% on individual motorway sections. They now also acknowledged these results will last much longer than previously thought because post-2000's traffic growth is significantly slower than during the 1980's and 1990's. This helped erasing the mindset that a widening was only effective for 1 or 2 years.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #6817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Previously politicians were fairly sceptic about road improvement projects, because most of them carried out in the 1990's were very small in character and had only a very limited effect. Now they've recognized the Netherlands needs a corridor and network-wide approach instead of the older "3km at the time" approach which indeed had little effect. Newer road projects are much more solid and significantly reduced traffic congestion, often 20 - 30% annually in recent years, and up to 98% on individual motorway sections. They now also acknowledged these results will last much longer than previously thought because post-2000's traffic growth is significantly slower than during the 1980's and 1990's. This helped erasing the mindset that a widening was only effective for 1 or 2 years.
I hope you mean the VVD and PVV by ''they''.
As soon as GL, D66, SP or the PvdA get in the government, forget about new infrastructure . They will be busy with nothing more than taxing the rich more and subsidies for the poor and more bureaucracy and rules.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #6818
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Funny though that thanks to the CDA/PvdA/CU government they actually started to take action.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #6819
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It actually started with LPF minister Roelf de Boer and his "spoedwet" (urgent law). It was then continued by minister Eurlings and the Balkenende cabinets and now the Rutte cabinet.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 06:53 PM   #6820
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True, but in the 6 years after Roelf de Boer made his law, no one did something with it. That is also why you pointed the 2000-2007 period, money, but no action. In total 3 cabinets of the rightwing parties CDA and VVD involved. When Balkenende (CDA) turned from right to left with the PvdA and CU, it was minister Eurlings who made the law from Roelf de Boer working.

This proofs that the statement of snowdog is false: "As soon as GL, D66, SP or the PvdA get in the government, forget about new infrastructure".
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